ignition question

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:58 pm

if i can get a picture of it i shall post it Smile

i'll email them now

update - just emailed them, they should get the email tomorrow or Tuesday, whatever reply, and ignition curve(s) i receive will be posted up asap Smile

mjpowell · Subject: Re: ignition question Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:13 pm

Zak any news on ignition curve? is it within the rules? Or is it time to change the rules ref 175 ignitions? i.e. no restrictions(like 125) or back to contact breakers??

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:21 am

Hi Mike, i haven't had anything back yet by email. I shall phone them this afternoon and chase them up Smile

thanks
Zak

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Got an email with the ignition curve, and even fitting instructions Smile

here's the curve Smile

alan · Subject: Re: ignition question Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:24 pm

Hi Zak,
The Ignition is not suited to the 175 class as the overall retardation is too great ie:
16 - 7 = 9 degrees overall.
The retardation starts actually starts at 16 degrees before BTDC because of the inital advance it creates, and ends at 7 degrees (ish) so it is the overall figure that counts. This ignition would be suited to the 125 class.
Sorry on that!
Hope you can get along to meet at Cadwell.
Alan

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:40 pm

Hi alan, the guy said in his email he can set it to whatever is needed to make it suit the class. When i emailed him he said he would release the kit as the "STK 176 formula bantam" with whatever ignition curve is suited to the 175 class. would this help? and can't make cadwell i'm afraid, can't get the time off work :\

alan · Subject: Re: ignition question Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:16 am

Hi Zak,
If your guy can meet the 4 degrees max retard then there is no reason why you shouldn't use the system. Maybe I should speak to him and help set down a 175 bantam class specification? and then everyone can take advantage of the improved price and fitting.
Shouldn't be a problem, so if you are OK then I will contact after Cadwell.
Cheers,
Alan

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:24 am

alan wrote:

Hi Zak,

The retardation starts actually starts at 16 degrees before BTDC because of the initial advance it creates, and ends at 7 degrees (ish) so it is the overall figure that counts.

So the retard after the advance is what counts? i thought it would have counted from the line of origin, in this case 12 degrees

and on average bantams rev to around 8500? the red line intersecting the y axis is equal to 12 degrees according to the instructions i was given. so for an engine at 8500, it would be around 3 degrees (ish) i think :S surely you wont get a bantam revving to 12000rpm realistically? i could be wrong, i've never really studied ignition (or redlining a bantam) in detail lol.

if you could give me some figures for a suitable spec my dad said he could contact him over the weekend or whenever. let me know and i'll get it sorted Smile

tonydavis · Subject: Re: ignition question Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:52 pm

zak_perrin wrote:

alan wrote:

Hi Zak,

The retardation starts actually starts at 16 degrees before BTDC because of the initial advance it creates, and ends at 7 degrees (ish) so it is the overall figure that counts.

So the retard after the advance is what counts?

and on average bantams rev to around 8500? the red line intersecting the y axis is equal to 12 degrees according to the instructions i was given. so for an engine at 8500, it would be around 3 degrees (ish) i think :S surely you wont get a bantam revving to 12000rpm realistically? i could be wrong, i've never really studied ignition in detail lol.

if you could give me some figures for a suitable spec my dad said he could contact him over the weekend or whenever. let me know and i'll get it sorted Smile

I've rode one that revs to 13,000 Shocked

and think my old green one revs to 10500 which is a little high for a 175.

keep going though Zak think you might be onto something here and if not get in touch with Borat at Zeeltronic he's a very clever bloke and always approachable I have one of his systems for a LC Smile

Or better still just get a good old PVL and forget about ignition for now and concentrate on the rest of the tuning, big gains can be made through pipe formula devolopment, porting, compression and correct carburation and even more by getting out and riding quicker and quicker Suspect

_________________
On a M.O.D. road a young Davis tries his freshly prepared bantam out, flat out and the brakes fail, he goes straight on through the barb wire and into a field, the on lookers ask what happened? our hero replied Some you win, some you lose

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:58 pm

haha fair shout Tony, wow 13000........ i never expected that much lol.

everything else is relatively ready and just needs odd bits before it can take shape. this would be a great option because it just bolts on and i would just have to press the new conrod in the crank rather than get it all machined down. as i said, my guy at electrex world will happily program the ignition to whatever is needed so i just need to know what's needed.

got all my formula books at the ready for pipe and carb Wink

made a handy little workbook on excel using Flemming pipe formulae, so i just input the variables and bam Very Happy

mjpowell · Subject: Electrex World Bantam Ignition Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:57 pm

Zak I ran an Electrex World Ignition at Cadwell at the weekend on my 125 and think its a great system.... I'm in contact with Technical at E.W. ref their STK 175 ignition - I'm happy to follow up the 4degree max that we require for 175's too. That ok with you Alan?

alan · Subject: Re: ignition question Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:54 pm

Hi Mike and Zak etc,
No problems at all Mike, set down a specification to meet the 4 degree max, and ask can they mark up that they are for 175 racing by something like a different colour to anything else or maybe non removable marks? to avoid confusion.
Otherwise brilliant! I will amend the rules on the web site if you are OK with that to include this ignition.
Cheers,
Alan

mjpowell · Subject: Re: ignition question Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:05 pm

I'll report back a.s.a.p.

zak_perrin · Subject: Re: ignition question Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:24 am

mjpowell wrote:

Zak I ran an Electrex World Ignition at Cadwell at the weekend on my 125 and think its a great system.... I'm in contact with Technical at E.W. ref their STK 175 ignition - I'm happy to follow up the 4degree max that we require for 175's too. That ok with you Alan?

told you it was a good choice Wink

lol. Mike if you'd like to follow it up that would be great Very Happy

Alan thankyou for allowing this ignition Very Happy

Mike, what's your contact's name?? say you've been in contact with John Perrin from ZR motorcycles about the Bantam ignition Smile

mjpowell · Subject: Re: ignition question Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:26 pm

The contact is 'Peter in techniclal' at Electrex World. I'll mention ZR when i speak to him...