BSA Bantam Racing

Bantam Racing Club
 
HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  

Share | 
 

 what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
dansofield550

avatar

Number of posts : 362
Localisation : gravesend kent
Registration date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:22 pm

looking at recent posts of days long gone it seems there was a huge amount of bantams in the then bantam club, i dont know any of the history regarding its demise to the point of return,

it seems there were grids for beginners and inters and seniors , i assume with different rules for each? did they all just dwindle away , grow old , ride other bike once they had a taste for racing? whats the general consensus ?


Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trevor Amos



Number of posts : 873
Registration date : 2010-08-13

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Typically at Snetterton, 40 starters on the grid, with up to 10 reserves, counting the then known absentees, competing and race ready Bantam numbers were up 60 !
Taking a quick look at the affordability of racing , on a season long and regular basis we raced with the BRC, BFRC , Newmarket and district club , racing 50 and so on. It was quite often that these meetings were consecutive, and three weekends on the trot was not a rare thing ! So I would conclude that to be able to finance that, then, racing was cheap, do the maths for now , at £450 a pop at that level of frequency and you`ll probably scare your bank manager ?

Trevor
Back to top Go down
View user profile
dansofield550

avatar

Number of posts : 362
Localisation : gravesend kent
Registration date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

not really asking about cheap etc, i do think todays bantam racing is cheap, the entry fee's are the same for everyone in all classes( big bikes through to scooter)

original question , when/why did it all fizzle out in , i guess, the mid eighties ?  what went on to drop so many riders in a short space of time? was it a case of the bikes were in the 60's newish and by the 70's were beginning to appear old and out dated but too new to be classic?

i'll explain why i think its cheap, my bike cost me more in time than money, im lucky to have the machinery to hand, up until buying a rear tyre i'd spent about £85(for rear wheel build) from the bank, the rest i got on ebay funded by selling stuff i considered useless to me, this while it is spending was from trading mostly and not from the real bank account,

frame was given to me,
complete engine £40
front alloy wheel with race tyre  hub and disc £30
forks £20 yzfr125
rear wheel triumph tiger900 bought for £40 with hub brake etc ,cut out hub and brake and sold for £50 after cleaning
tank £15
fairing fee (thanks again les)
screen £20
rear hub £15
front brake caliper master cylinder and clutch lever breakers in dartford swapped for gs550 bits i had left from other build
ignition complete coil etc £50 dartford karting
carb ebay £25 , but now using one that was given to me
rear seat christmas present
exhaust made that from scraps i had laying about
cylinder head todd type £15 ebay birthday gift
clipons £8 ebay
gearbox close ratio part box on ebay £80 made the missing gears myself
im sure i've missed bits but the bulk can be found and paid for using a bit attic clearing and ebay
Back to top Go down
View user profile
john bass

avatar

Number of posts : 1737
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: GOD -- good old days   Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:09 am

Sounds like you did much as we did Dan....
As I said before on here, the Icarus-1 engine was found in a field. In those days other club members, you hardly knew, would come up and say, "Heard you wanted a petrol tank. One in my car is yours if you want it." No dooubt he heard from reading our regular BRC newsletter...Nothing about payment. It was a real Club. Close Ratio gears became a collection en-route to and from Leyland every week for three & half years. It used to be that a BSA Dealer´s counter-sales staff lad would say, "Oh yeah! Recognise the part numbers. Ain´t no call these days. If you want to sort thro´ the junk boxes you can...." . How much? would be answered with, " Give us half a quid mate. " and he´d not even know how manygears I´d got. By this suck-it-&-see method I gathered quite a number of CR sets of gears for next to nothing and I gave 2 & half sets to the Wobbleyman.

The BRC committee had a Spares Secretary and for quite a time our current 175 Champ -- "Sticky Míck" Scutt -- performed that function. The BRC mag came out regularly and contained a Spares page plus there were always Bantams and race bikes for sale.

I had my own gas-welding gear but machining was a bit of a problem that always costs quite a bit ... When I think of the númber of pipes I made and what a pro welder would charge I guess it is hard now on the would be racer who also wants to dabble at a bit of tuning.

With Andy´s 250 I was on top of the world. Andy was in the process of getting it sorted when he broke his shoulder at Brands and i carried on with his testing and then racing. Not only was it so much easier to ride -- the ABS had five gears and I only slipped the clutch at the start, whereas with Icarus-1, I was slipping the clutch all the time to be competitive and that was in Intermediate Class races.

Yaaaaawwwnnn!

Cheers!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://t-online.de
ted

avatar

Number of posts : 184
Registration date : 2007-08-23

PostSubject: what happened then(in the good ol'days   Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:26 pm

I think the answer to your question is no one knows the full answer. Like all things there many reasons that things change I will now give MY VEIW. When I joined the club in 1975 there was a waiting list to become a riding member. I went on the list as an associate member and waited for someone to dope out. I became a full member latter that year when Mary Stiles was secretary. By 1981 there were fewer bantams out, in my opinion due to economic reasons; we were coming into the years of lots of people being part of the government’s strategic labour reserve (on the dole). This got worst through the eighties. When things got better a lot of people that were starting racing had grown up with Yamaha LC’s and there were classes for them to race in for a reasonable cost. The important advantage was over the counter spares, not weeks in the shed making a new part. The MZ class was the new Bantam class (and still is) for people that wanted to build their own bikes. Racers that had grown up on Bantams became fewer and a winning bike harder to build. Racing was moving production based machines or second hand TZ Yamahas and single cylinder bikes based on MX engines.

There was and still is a few very clever and hard working enthusiasts that kept working on Bantams and pushing up power outputs, making it hard to start with a competitive new build. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISUM OF THE MEN THAT BUILT THE QUICK BIKES OR THE RULES. The number of Bantams racing dropped to a handful due to all the above and not appealing to young riders (look at the average age on the grids). So that’s my option Dan and I hope it explains some things, it is also why good people are needed to keep it going. We are all pleased to see some younger riders coming through and I am still looking for someone to put on my bike.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
john bass

avatar

Number of posts : 1737
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: G O D ---   Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:23 pm

G O D = Good Old days. Later than that Dan. Mid ninties to end of 90s´ I think.

Peter Tibbitts will know -- he was still there at the time.

Cheers!

JayBee.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://t-online.de
Ned

avatar

Number of posts : 260
Localisation : Rayleigh Essex
Registration date : 2007-01-11

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:49 am

dansofield550 wrote:

it seems there were grids for beginners and inters and seniors , i assume with different rules for each?
Hi Dan. The rules were the same for each group apart from not being able to enter a race below your grade.
Members were graded by their results. One formula used for upgrading was 1 win, 2 seconds or 3 thirds. It wasn't unheard of for a rider to hold back until it suited them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mjpowell

avatar

Number of posts : 1074
Localisation : Lincoln England
Registration date : 2006-12-09

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:56 am

Post 1980 timeline:-

1983 last season of novice inter races
1984 short stroke, long stroke (std 58mm) and championship races
assumption being slow riders have long strokes
1985 British Formula Racing Club folds
1986 Newmarket club no longer run bantam champioship
1988? John Sawer revamps an intermediate championship
1993 Shuttleworth, Fred Lauchbury trophies retired
1994 175 aircooled bantam formula introduced
1995 BRC folds
1996 Bantam championship plus Shuttleworth, Fred Lauchbury, Rick Powell
and BFRC trophies all raced for at 4 meetings at Historic Racing VMCC
1997 5 meeting championship with VMCC
1998 Full season with BHR vmcc
2000? MAN Novice trophy
2002? bsabantamracing.com (it was tripod, co.uk etc..)
2006? Wobblyman trophy for first 175 in championship.
2012 BSA Bantam Racing facebook page

I feel things have gone round and round a bit but as things stand the 175s
have taken over from inters but a 175 can still win the outright championship
(but the rider would have to move to 125 thereafter)

Please add to the timeline if you can think of anything?

Regards Mike
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Derek

avatar

Number of posts : 1065
Age : 56
Localisation : worcestershire
Registration date : 2007-06-15

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:37 pm

Ted makes an interesting comment.

In my mind ( that is certainly not a criticism) Bantam racing died with the introduction of the short stroke Bantam. it should never have been allowed, along with water cooling them adding extra ports. who had the expertise to do this, ! we were shed builders and so too where many others. but I think it depended on what your job was as to the type of shed and the tools in it that dictated if you could build a short stroke, and make it reliable, many attempted it and many failed to build any kind of reliablility into there's, so called cheaper parts/ alternative/ more available parts/ ?? the bull list goes on, but to my mind the real reason was a few who had the resources to use racing parts that would allow them to push up the rev range to astronomical revs for a short stroke and make them reliable because they had the knowledge/facilities sadly many did not, so they left to race other Bikes, I bumped into a Bantam racer from the early 80's his name was Burwin his daughter races in the same race we do, 125 moto-star, he gave me the same reasons, it seemed the then technical committee made a monumental cock-up, the decision, was so controversial "all did not agree with it", so it had to be voted on, the for's won, and so the demise was set, "many on the committee voted against this, its was a marginal vote and should never have been allowed, but clearly some fools where better politicians than they were at understanding what a Formula class for "all abilities" was about, this vote was to allow in short strokes.

So within just a few season number of racers fell by 50% - THIS IS the real reason why people left in droves, they simply could not compete, in what should be a std formula for all levels and abilities, or without a full machine shop, in those days people never had the resources around the paddock today, and people could not afford to pay to get it done, its easy for people to become frustrated at why it takes so long, to build Bantam, these are just unrealistic view, it takes two years possibly more with modest resources to construct a bike that has all the bits, you will then wobble round at the back of the field for a further Two years while you try to develop your ability to tune the thing to stay together, perhaps this answers your questions, TED IS SPOT ON, The people voting this in were fools in my opinion, who wants to turn up with the leaders disappearing with 22/25 BHP and the best long stroke of that time with perhaps 14/16 BHP. SO the blame lies with there decision,in my mind.

my views are my views they are not set in stone, but they do offer the correct thesis and certainly the information I offer contained in them is "accurate", unlike others!. if you don't like it -tough don't read it".
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mjpowell

avatar

Number of posts : 1074
Localisation : Lincoln England
Registration date : 2006-12-09

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:16 pm

Well Derek that pre-dates anything I knew about.. but going along to meetings in the
late 70s early 80s with Rick our interest was in British bikes and the cheapest most
cost effective class was the bantam class. And they looked the part too..

Hope your torque-master is coming along nicely.
Are you coming to Mallory to watch at all?

Regards Mike
Back to top Go down
View user profile
john bass

avatar

Number of posts : 1737
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: Wht G O D ...   Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:04 pm

I would argue, Derek that the short stroke motor was a good idea -- just that it should have been ín another class as a "Bantam-Special" -- just as we, The BRC, had classes of Specials which attracted quite a number of home-builders. Any that didn´t conform to the Original Bantam formula should have been put into a Special Class of racing and pukha Bantams kept  within their original formula rules.

It was obvious from our experience that the latter CANNOT work. Scrutineers would have to be highly trained personnel looking and checking engine internals....

In other words:-

The Bantam Racing 125 should have been kept as the founding-fathers and Roy Bacon had declared: "Racing On The Cheap"....

There were too many wanting the winning bike -- no matter what --  and a lot of cheating was going on
long before anyone  realised that the formula wasn´t controlling the Grid Reality any more.

I attended a number of committee meetings as an observer long before before being voted in as Chairperson to see that it was too late to reverse anything:  water-cooling, shortstroke and fascinating crankcase mods plus fairings were already in ....


Á big thing was made by the Press, and our own members, of  OUR lads going to the Island with streamlining, 4 gears, short-stroke and reed valve ... It was the Fairing making the Bantam look like a real racing motorbike. The follow-on was that a great number of Bantam Club riders wanted this -- which was the swing to overwhelming demand for fairings ....

I am still of the opinion that there OUGHT to be a Formula for a Low-Cost Racing Bantam in the picture now but each time I mention it there is a silent response or a good reason NOT to do anything about it...

So any newcomer is stuck with buying a known quick Bantam at high cost or being prepared to, "to just go
for the ride".

I suppose the latter isn´t all that bad. Dess up and look the part -- poodle around in practice and tag along
with a few Also-Rans in the races -- and tell self that it was an enjoyable weekend, like, a bit costly but brillaint to chat with the lads ... I´d just not want it for myself. To race is as Ned (I think) said is to be in a race to win....

I have a feeling, this, I have said all-before, which  should be deleted at birth -- but NO! I think I owe it to the club to have my say about the future for Bantam Racing -- which is doomed if status-quo is maintained.

Cheers!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://t-online.de
mjpowell

avatar

Number of posts : 1074
Localisation : Lincoln England
Registration date : 2006-12-09

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:56 pm

John the bantam class is not doomed!! And is healthier now than
it was 20yrs ago. Its current economics that makes it a bit of a struggle
to afford on occassions. I was disappointed with the entry at Lydden
but that does not mean the class is doomed, please come along to Cadwell
Where the entry will be good, it will be good to see you.

Kind regards Mike
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Derek

avatar

Number of posts : 1065
Age : 56
Localisation : worcestershire
Registration date : 2007-06-15

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:27 am

Mike is spot on the Bantam class is not doomed, I agree there too, but it needs some serious work and hard thinking, by all those who are disappearing into the distance, and have done for a number of years, kind of makes a mockery of the class and what it was all about, a fair, cheap formula, that allows "all" who compete in it to be able to do just that.

Mike you were still in school trousers, I can still remember the first day, you were pointed out to me, in the paddock at cadwell, and you were in shorts, and looked just like a school kid,!

on the meetings see you have to be in the club to know about such a historic/catastrophic meeting, but if you look back at one of the earlier posts from Lez's confirm his friend arriving back and setting about building a new short stroke to compete in the new formula, such meeting did take place, but I'm sure you would never have know or asked to attend such meeting, ask around your camp "said meeting will be confirmed" my facts are correct.

I like fiction but while not always popular my opinions contain a lot of facts, as I always try to be factual, !.

thanks foir the invite to Cadwell but sadly "No I'm not coming to Mallory" even though its currently literally on my doorstep, I'm at Cadwell, this week end, feel free to drop by and say hello, perhaps find some common ground over a cup of tea, and have a good weekend at Mallory.

kind regards Derek
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mjpowell

avatar

Number of posts : 1074
Localisation : Lincoln England
Registration date : 2006-12-09

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:33 am

But Derek the front runners are not going any faster now than
they were 5 years ago , the lap times are the same. Put it down
to 200* exhaust timing 21bhp power and old hat thinking which
Is still good enough to win races in 2013.

Perhaps when more modern-day thinking ref torque comes out
into the open the field will close up, more info about this sort of
thing will see to that - bring it on...

Cheap racing? I feel that racing a bantam still compares favourably
with racing any small motorcycle at the circuits we go to.

Kind regards Mike
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ned

avatar

Number of posts : 260
Localisation : Rayleigh Essex
Registration date : 2007-01-11

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 am

mjpowell wrote:


Perhaps when more modern-day thinking ref torque comes out
into the open the field will close up, more info about this sort of
thing will see to that - bring it on...
Kind regards Mike
Aint ever going to happen Mike.
Tom don't do corners so he puts riders on his bikes that do. Derek reckons anyone that doesn't agree with him is an amateur or an idiot and he has developed a bike that's a winner if it wasn't for his weight. Will he put a seven stone jockey on it to prove his point ? I don't think so because the bull stops when the flag drops.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Derek

avatar

Number of posts : 1065
Age : 56
Localisation : worcestershire
Registration date : 2007-06-15

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:37 pm

john bass wrote:
I would argue, Derek that the short stroke motor was a good idea -- just that it should have been ín another class as a "Bantam-Special" -- just as we, The BRC, had classes of Specials which attracted quite a number of home-builders. Any that didn´t conform to the Original Bantam formula should have been put into a Special Class of racing and pukha Bantams kept  within their original  formula rules.


The Bantam Racing 125 should have been kept as the founding-fathers and Roy Bacon had declared: "Racing On The Cheap"....

Cheers!
Hi John
Sorry I never responded to your points,
1) I have actually said this above before, I agree with it whole heatedly, that all the specials currently being raced as Bantams should be forced by the commanding club to enter the specials class, with all the other specials.

2) I don't think there is actually anything wrong with water cooling but adding lots of extra holes for me it becomes a real special, can it be called a BSA Bantam, if you look at all the iron clad 175 with Todd fairings they simply look the dog's, shame we have to Basterdise the Formula for a modern looking fairing, that makes a mockery of the whole idea, of cheap affordable racing, besides how do we attract more people when the field is allowed to become so diverse nothing actually looks like a Bantam racer anymore ?

3) your quite an old guy but sometime John you actually talk a lot of sense, what would you do with the rules Know not taking into consideration the current bikes/class or what changes would you make.

I have pondered on this many times, one thing I was thinking looking at the current championship and finishing times is I would penalise the racer using a bike that is seen as a special, can we really have / afford specials and the current status quo in Bantam racing, ? for the class to flurish again the answer is in my mind NO

so the time theory could go along
time added to your race times for the mods you have, this would need to be by a lap so if its a 10 lap race you add it 10x.

Mods and time added for instance could be.
a) water cooling 2 seconds
b) extra transfers constructed 4
c) extra exhaust ports or port constructed 2 seconds
d) inlet no restrictions

175cc
a) extra transfers 10 seconds
b) added ports 10 seconds
straightened modified exhausts 6 seconds.
in fact any mod not in keeping with the spirit of the class, should be taken into account.
even fairings - none Todd fairings in any class 4 seconds to be added.

after all we are all trying to promote the formula how can this be done if all Bikes look like specials.


I forgot the short stroke argument so adding a further 2 seconds per lap for a 54 x 54 and 4 seconds for a 50 x 56, this theory is based on discouraging people from building new engines outside the spirit of the formula, while allowing the current specials/Bantams to continue to be raced.
if you look closely my times are penalising the complexity/difficulty to do the Mod, as simple water cooling is not that difficult, but adding in extra transfers is not so easy, so penalised with a higher number.

Looking at the online times, the grid would have been very different, in fact a total reversal. ! and to my mind just what the doctor ordered.

I think its great Nigel has persevered with his Iron barrel 175, Herman Mier built a 175 sprinter in the 60;s that went through the speed trap at over 117 MPH. So why do we need all these specials, the addition of the BTW alloy barrel was a great idea again things are just going too far, but more alarming is the cost for these, I understand Brian may be on a get rich quick campaign but seriously the cost of these is quite alarming,

I can see no reason, why these Barrels should cost more than £200.0, with a liner machined /fitted and ported modestly, with two transfers one exhaust, all machined std prior to installing in the barrel, as a base set up for the new owners.

this encouraging them to do the rest in their sheds, do we really need to encourage new starters who can not do anything, ? the other important point to consider is the cost of these, I was quoted over £500!!. I would never be prepared to pay over the odds, so why should we allow new starters to have to do so. Adding in addition transfer to these barrels for sure would cost a small fortune in time, so therefore should be penalized by adding an additional 10 seconds per lap to their lap times.!

replies by post card only please !.

Derek
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Derek

avatar

Number of posts : 1065
Age : 56
Localisation : worcestershire
Registration date : 2007-06-15

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:31 pm

Ned wrote:
mjpowell wrote:


Perhaps when more modern-day thinking ref torque comes out
into the open the field will close up, more info about this sort of
thing will see to that - bring it on...
Kind regards Mike
Aint ever going to happen Mike.
Tom don't do corners so he puts riders on his bikes that do. Derek reckons anyone that doesn't agree with him is an amateur or an idiot and he has developed a bike that's a winner if it wasn't for his weight. Will he put a seven stone jockey on it to prove his point ? I don't think so because the bull stops when the flag drops.  
Hi Ned you miss quoted me there I never said you or anyone else was an amateur, ! but I agree if the disagree with me they must be the other, as I'm always right, its one of those things that come with being a married man, or so my wife tells me.

and the other comment Ned - come on - don't be like that, you know I,m just doing the physiological bit before the flag, you were said to be so good at this, that in the end no one took any notice of what you said,! but all riders do it, its just some are better at it than others, even more so in the paddock!!, but I'm sure its winding a few up, "don't you think".!

Anyway you know more than anyone about weight, as it only dawned on me recently, as I could never understand why Tom said in the paddock, your crash helmet must be a converted bubble car, upside down!. to fit on your head!! as
such wise words or wisdom deserve a response.

But the 7 stones I'm working on.

very best regards Derek (wind up)

Back to top Go down
View user profile
dansofield550

avatar

Number of posts : 362
Localisation : gravesend kent
Registration date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:22 pm

derek, i thought the brian barrel reasonable cost wise , 119 for the casting , i was thinking the rex barrel was expensive something like 270 un-machined, i took me 6 hours to make liner and bore the barrel  , we normally try to get 35-40 hour , so £240 labour .

i thought about getting 10 barrels and machining them up , but i reckon in 10 years time i'd have 6 on the self and none of the 4 would be sold to someone who'd race it!

not sure how you get extra ports in a 175 as they originate from the crankcase that cant be welded etc and simply grow outwards in width as the alloy barrel has more metal to expand the size,
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trevor Amos



Number of posts : 873
Registration date : 2010-08-13

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:36 pm

It is quite easy to pick up a race ready RS125 barrel for less than the price of a BTW, un-machined casting, within the broad context of affordable racing, which represents the better value ? The Honda will have an assured level of performance, the Bantam, far less so !

Mike , you lament the lack of information needed to produce torque level improvements, it`s already out there, free for the taking, but the desire has to be there to go and find it, and then interpret all of the facts and figures for the narrow and specific needs of a Bantam and have the skill to incorporate all of it into a complete Bantam set up, i haven`t been close to 200* for 25yrs with the ex. timing in my engines !

As a post script to the 50th anniversary Llydden get together , I had a chat with several well known past " celebrities " the universal opinion was that, in general, the level of competition had reached a plateau and that development was up a cul- de- sac, displaying a follow my leader mentality . From what you are suggesting you would seem to agree, citing to stagnation of lap times, have the reported new season rocket ships turned out to be damp squibs ?


Cheers, Trevor

Back to top Go down
View user profile
mjpowell

avatar

Number of posts : 1074
Localisation : Lincoln England
Registration date : 2006-12-09

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:10 am

Hi Trevor, the RS125 cylinder is great value for money for use on a
RS125. Are you talking Aprila? or Honda? But I would rather people
raced a bantam.

One or two bantams have been around the 28bhp mark but a good
usable bantam with 21bhp can turn very nearly the same lap times
and without breaking gearbox's. There's more to a championship
Winning bantam than a fast motor I think?

Yes lap times are generally static but that at the moment is a good
thing, gives the others time to catch up.

Famous bantam folk of yesteryear they may/may not have a point?
Does it matter?

Lets go Bantam racing....

Regards Mike
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Trevor Amos



Number of posts : 873
Registration date : 2010-08-13

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:59 am

Mike,
The opening paragraph of my post does mention the Honda , but lest there be any remaining confusion it is the Honda I was referring to . But the observation could equally apply to the Aprilia, I guess .
Back to top Go down
View user profile
john bass

avatar

Number of posts : 1737
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: Committe Meeting Moments...   Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:47 am

Arriving on time at The Hoop & Grapes, Holborn was to discover Mary (Styles) and Scrooge (John Sawer) already in deep discussion.  "Ah you," said Financial Secretary John, "You said, yes let him enter on the day -- I trust him to pay." Mary butted in with, "And he didn´t. He didn´t pay for next week´s  Snetterton races either. "

We had a regular BRC magazine -- between 2 dozen and 3 dozen pages each time -- which always reported on each race meeting and listed those race members who had not paid their Subs and those owing money to the  the club  for various things...

"We cannot afford to go on like this, " John said,"We aren´t a charity you know ... " Mary added her pennyworth that this rider had sent a cheque, for those late-entry races and for races at  the next Snetterton meeting and that cheque had bounced. I lamely said, "OK Ok! On the front of the next Mag I shall name this one in capital letters."

"No, I wouldn´t do that," Mary said, "You could get sued."  So it was agreed, we would have it on `Chairman´s Message´ -- front page --  that a racing member with a surname similar to that of a previous British Prime Minister,  owed the club X number of pounds for his late-entry races and those he hoped to compete in at the next Snetterton ....

Our Mag came out a few days before Snetterton. I then realised there were more surnames of BRC members that had been Prime Ministers.
As expected  -- in the Pits  at Snetterton -- I was called a nasty name by Bantam rider, `Don E...´  who accepted my apology when I explained it was the PM whose surname started with an M ...

A little later I was walkíng through the Pits when I spotted a huge man .. about six foot six in his socks ... unloading a great big Proddy bike from a van. I called Hang-On but by the time I got to him he´d manhandled  this massive machine onto the ground like it had been a Mo-Ped. "Ah!" he said, pointing a massive finger at my chest,  
"You  are the club chairman -- right!"   I nodded numbly thinking any minute now he´s going to give me a  good thumping. He said, "I´d like a word with you," He went to the front of the van and opened the glove-box, took out a chequebook and pen and said, "Ha! Let´s get it right this time... "

Seems the  cheque he had sent to Mary had been filled in, incorrectly ....

I cannot remember how often the mag came out but it was always packed with information and wonderful stories as well as the Centres´News & other valuable tuning info... We had a number of committee members and other volunteers assisting each time the mag was collated.

I thought that magazine -- as a motorcycle racing mag -- the best-ever. That was until I came over from Canada in 1981 and saw Ned´s version which was smaller, smarter and neater,
yet provided the same amount -- or more -- info....

Yaaawwwnnn -- Cheers!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://t-online.de
Derek

avatar

Number of posts : 1065
Age : 56
Localisation : worcestershire
Registration date : 2007-06-15

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:07 am

Hi Dan

I still don't think £500 is cheap or acceptable for a Bantam Barrel, but I raise a few points on this.
Derek
Back to top Go down
View user profile
bennion

avatar

Number of posts : 103
Age : 64
Localisation : Malpas, Cheshire
Registration date : 2006-12-23

PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:10 am

Hi Dan

Returning to your original query on history of the Bantam Racing Club, I rode Bantams between 1973 and 1980. In ‘73 there was no waiting list for riding membership although, due to numbers, this may have been introduced later. There was certainly a highly competitive atmosphere, fuelled by the establishment of Centres at different parts of the country. South West, Eastern, East Midlands, Cheshire, Northern and Southern come to mind. Grids were always full due to reserve entries replacing breakdowns, no shows and demand exceeding supply.  In those days it was possible to be competitive in the Novice class with a basic ‘garden shed’ engineered bike and a win here was a realistic goal for most. This level of bike would sometimes be good for a top 3 place in the Intermediate class. To progress beyond this into the Senior category it was necessary to have a more ‘machine shop’ engineered mount. Those who worked in the automotive, aeronautical and similar industries had scope to progress their bikes way beyond garden shed specification. Ford at Dagenham and Rolls Royce at Filton amongst others played their part. Those who didn’t work at these establishments or equivalent, either bought a better engineered bike, knew a man who could or held back to avoid being promoted up a grade. Once out of the Novice category, there was no going back. On occasion, a Novice rider would appear on a Senior bike and clear off into the distance. Those promoted from Intermediate to Senior, reverted to Intermediate the following season if they had not made the top 12 in the Championship. This meant competitive rides for those with a reasonable Intermediate mount.

The entire spectrum of machine preparation used to be on show. However a scruffy bike did not necessarily mean it was slow and an immaculate machine was not necessarilly very fast...

The glue that held all this together was the monthly magazine and many informative tuning articles were presented. I especially recall Mick Scutt’s expansion chamber formula and Don Eden’s transfer port articles. The Tuning Manual appeared towards the late 1970s and this contained many snippets of wisdom from the Great and the Good. There was a good deal of banter between the various Centres in the magazine and an annual team race was held. On the evening before race meetings beer fuelled entertainment included inter-centre quiz, darts matches and suchlike. Race day would usually be on a Saturday and on that evening more beer would inevitably flow. The average age of the Bantam rider was much lower than today and the frolics represented this.

Costs were such that race entry fees were exceptionally low in comparison with today. Fuel for transport was also not as critical. Bike costs and spares were I believe comparable with today.

Race meetings were held at Cadwell, first 1.3 mile then 1.5 mile Club circuits, Llandow, Lydden and Snetterton. During the late 1970s Debden, followed by West Raynham were used. There was much less health & Safety bureaucracy in those days. Sign on was first thing – before scrutineering. There was always a plea for more Marshalls and proceedings were often delayed until enough volunteers could be found. Jane Andrew would bellow from the loudspeakers “Can we ‘ave all Baantams for Practice”. Yes – Bantam only practice – usually at least 2 sessions. All races had push starts with dead engines on the drop of a flag. If you were able, you could jump straight back on the bike after an off. 8 lap Novice and Intermediate and 12 lap Open and Championship races – including Snetterton at nearly 2 miles a lap were the norm. Then there were the annual 50 mile races at Snetterton, 12 laps for the Novices and 26 laps for Inters and Championship.

When I was reluctantly forced to retire in 1980, Bantam racing enjoyed full grids. However, by 1983 the numbers had been decimated. I believe the economic depression of the early 1980s had a major influence. By chance I visited Snetterton in about 1987 when the 50 mile races were being held. There were only 6 Bantams racing that day and about 40 or so MZs.

To my eternal regret I exchanged my competitive Intermediate Bantam for a road bike in order to get to work. I still have this road bike, but that's another story...

Regards

Chris
Back to top Go down
View user profile
john bass

avatar

Number of posts : 1737
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: Nice one Chris...   Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:58 am

Nice one Chris -- you said it about right for those who went before you -- you started as I left off.

My 80quid, 12bhp at 8400rpm (wind behind, of course) Icarus-1 -- was competitive in the rain and I wouldn´t have missed Bantam racing for the world but looking at what I see on here in the way of development I can only conclude our little team only just got started when ambition and greed for status and money had me away to Canada.

It´d be nice to be able to do some things all over again....

Cheers!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://t-online.de
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)   

Back to top Go down
 
what happened then? (in the good'ol'days)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» The Good Old Days
» the good old days when you listened to commentary
» Good News Stories
» summer pike fishing good or bad
» Looking for recommendations on Jacket with good ventilation

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
BSA Bantam Racing :: Your first category :: Bantam Racing Forum-
Jump to: