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 Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...

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john bass

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PostSubject: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:09 am

Hi Alan and Bantam Folks!
Just realised I've been pigging-in (with Mick Jones) into 'Any New Bantam Racers?' file. Sorry!

What about the title above as a new topic?

By the way, that picture Alan managed to get in as Avatar is of Icarus-1 with its 8400 rpm (downhill, wind behind) motor equipped with CB points ignition and standard bore/stroke... yet in that race it finished first at Cadwell (29th September 1968). The shot was taken at my favourite left-hander -- 'Mansfield', ain't it?
After adding strengthening gussets ... etc... a la´ Roy Bacon the frame was cad-plated at Leyland Motors, near Preston, for free (well, a couple of pints like...). Two and a half CR gear sets were collected from various BSA dealers on the way to & from Leyland for about a quid a time. The procedure was to present the part numbers -- then persuade the workshop/garage owner to allow a shufty through his junk-box.
The engine came free also. Les White, who did our turning jobs, found it among a heap of junk in an Essex field.
Stay cool!
Aye! JayBee.
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Mick Jones

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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:36 am

Good idea to start a wrinklies section John, sign me up. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Staying up late to look at Tony's Pictures...   Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:36 pm

Hey Mick! I see you stay up late trying to work out who's who on Tony's pics... On this channel its worse -- we're deeper into nostalgia.
How is it these modern bikes have so much reliability? I used to go to Brands on a practice day and run-in pistons with spares and sure as snow melts in hell I'd seize next time out and I was running at less than 8500 rpm max. When I threw Ned's machine up the road (Parade 1981) the last thing he said was ringing in my ears, "Dunn let the revs drop below 9 thousand or she'll seize." She did! Is it that low (relatively speaking) max revs brings seizure on????
The only tie up I see is that a, 'low dynamic compression-ratio allows the engine to run on to higher max revs' which might be a clue. Perhaps Icarus-1 had its static CR too high?
My job at Simms meant I was at Leyland all week on a regular basis which meant little time for the bike. My mentor, Derek, stopped coming to meetings (the body smell probably...) and I was most times spannering alone. And suffering. Development was crippled and Reliability very low.
Remember Niffy? Lovely feller. He helped me at Brands one time and I was rude to him before the race... Always felt bad about that... Tell you some time -- gotta go -- been volunteered again...
Cheers! John-Boy.
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Mick Jones

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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:51 pm

For some uncanny reason, i had relatively few siezures during my racing days, the most notable was the Greeves at paddock, Brands, in 75, which threw me through the air like a catapult. Bill Lawrence had a right go at me for not catching it quicker, Embarassed but good old Wobblyman just put it down to the learning curve Shocked
Niffy was a great bloke, always the first to help you if you were in trouble. Damned good rider too. I remember he had returned from an island sorte and gone to Lydden, he was still in island mode so the little Kent track must have been awful for him. We were out on TZ's and i lapped him at the hairpin while going on to win the race, i went up to him and apologized, dunno why, it just didn't seem right. Also at Lydden, in the pouring rain, I was riding like a nutter trying to catch the leader who had pulled out a massive lead after a first corner pile up. I caught him and as I passed, I turned on the juice a bit early and went down. Niffy was the first one to give me a hand to reassemble the sorry TZ, saying, "I wasn't sure which corner you were going to go down at but I would have put money on paddock".

lol!
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john bass

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PostSubject: The Good Go First...   Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:38 pm

Hi Mike!
It is as they say -- 'The good go first...'. I asked this question once before
because I was in Canada and then here in Deutschland and only heard much later that Niffy was buried in The Island: "Which year was it that Niffy crashed in the Manx?
I'll scribble a bit about him later -- just got orders ter get my boots on and get movin'...
Cheers! John-Boy.

... Whiskey was invented so that the Irish would not conquer the world.
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:13 am

I for one don't know mate, like you I was away at the time and found out much later. In the same vein, I heard, when working in Spain, that Jimmy Wells had a bad one in Ireland, anyone know more on this? Jimmy was a great help to me when I was campaigning the Kwacker.
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PostSubject: Jimmy Wells...   Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:09 am

Hi Mick!
In the mid-to-late 50's I raced solo at grass meetings where 'Oily' Wells, Jimmy's Dad, was racing sidecar outfits. In those days he also drove Stock Car and rode a motorcycle across the Sahara desert. Occasionally we rubbed shoulders... He was full of laughs and a hell of a character to be with. Later, when Wobbleyman had fixed-up my son Anthony -- Slick -- as apprentice with Jimmy, at John Carpenter's place, Slick was spannering for Jimmy at all the big meetings. I forget which year it was -- probably around '84 -- Jimmy put up the fastest lap, in practice, at the Ulster and then had a freak accident. Avoiding a falling rider his bike hit a bank and Jimmy went up and over into a field. A barbed-wire fence just happened to be where Jimmy landed and his throat was slashed. He lost so much blood he was pronounced 'clinically dead'...
My lad was so upset about it I came over to Blighty and with him (Slick)and Wobbley went to see Jimmy in hospital. Amazing that Jimmy was still alive. Oily was there and we exchanged a few words but he was no longer the Oily of old. Jimmy's prang had taken it all out of him. Jimmy was then in a wheelchair -- still paralysed. Didn't know us because a lot of his brain had died and couldn't speak because his voice-box had gone.
I heard later he'd been given a lot of therapy, had re-educated his brain to the extent he'd divorced Eve and married his last nurse and was not doing 'too bad'.
Slick still can't talk about it -- like he can't speak about Hizzy (Steve) Hislop (heliciptor crash) -- and at least ten other IoM riders whose funerals Slick has attended... Including, of course, an East Ender (killed at Brands) whose name has escaped me and our very good buddy -- Niffy.
Track safety has improved but perfect safety is impossible.
It is a great pity that our sport should have this nasty side and perhaps better that we do not dwell on the accidents too much yet as our Mary Styles was apt (frequently) to do -- we should make a song-&-dance about track safety whenever we see something suspicious.
There was an International meeting at Oulton Park (Bill Lawrence's last before emigrating) in '81 where an unnecessary death occured because there were insufficient straw bales against the Armco barrier at the Club Circuit slip road...
This is so grim I've half a mind to delete it...
Ah! but next time I'll give an account of the FUN...
Cheers!
John.

Whiskey was invented so that Ireland would not conquer the world!
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:55 am

Thanks for clearing that up mate, at least i know now. Fancy Jimmy divorcing Eve, I remember her well, married to Bill previously. The eastender killed at Brands, his name escapes me, an up and coming rider at the time, i met him a few times at Jimmy's house. I'll have to get this memory fixed, old age takes it's toll. Lets talk fun as you said mate.

PS John, i'm sure Bill was around in 82, i distinctly remember him riding at a national at Snetterton, he went down coming out of the bomb hole and characteristically Wobbly pulled over to help him and slow people down so as not to make matters worse with another faller, Jimmy was there too.
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:44 am

Hi Guys. I'm on here at last thanks to Admin Al.
John, the version I heard from Salty, was that it was the fairing screen that caught Jim's throat and shortage of oxygen caused the paralysis. People I spoke to that went to see Jim when he came home said his condition had made him quite aggressive to wards Eve.
Mick, loads of the old school turned out to say our farewells to Niffy at the City Of London crematorium. (not the IOM) It was in fact the last time I saw Wobblyman who had come over from the island.
A morbid subject I know but thought you would want to know.
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:57 am

JB. Nothing technical about why my bike seized and threw you down the road mate. After a long full bore run you have to remember. That if you close that twisty thing on the R/H bar to long it stops oil going in! Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:06 am

Nice of you to let me know Ned, I was away at the time and really out of touch so catching up on the news, albeit old, is very important to me. Shame about the Eve thing, I really liked her, very friendly. Me and Bill would often be sitting in his living room till late chatting and she always had the coffee on the go. Thanks again Ned.
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PostSubject: Ned is Back...!   Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:34 pm

Yipppeee!
Welcome back Ned. We wuzz a missing of you. Yeah! I never got the full story of Jimmy: it came in bits.... When I saw him in a wheelchair he was just sitting there gazing into space... Lousy subject -- let's leave it be except to say that I was surprised at how he recovered enough to be aggressive.
I like to remember Niffy, Jimmy and Wobbleyman as how they were. So very different. Short Niffy, an artisan, neat and tidy, Slim Jimmy a tuning perfectionist and 14stone Wobbleyman all conman and cuddly... All 3, London comedians when the time suited.
Ned! I don't remember shutting that twisty thing off... Flying through the screen -- yeah!, then looking at George Nelson's gloves which were exuding red stuff and thinking, "They were brand new and I only
borrowed them -- and Oooh OH ShiT! I borrowed Ned's lovely Bantam."
Darkness took it all away -- like it never happened.
Reminder came when I gave Judy back her DonR business hat -- it had a
nasty crack in it...
Take care! John-Boy.
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PostSubject: Our Bill...   Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:10 am

Hi Mick & Ned...!
I think Bill went to Ozzy in '82. Just before he went he was in front of the Beak for answering back at a copper who nicked him for having no tax on the Wobbleyman's van at Oulton Park, August 1981. Bill told the copper they were on private property -- still on the circuit exit tracks like -- and that it weren't his van so he couldn't be nicked ... which meant he had to appear in court. The Beak asked him if he had anything to say as well as pleading 'guilty'. Bill answered, "I plead guilty but insane." The Beak warned him of an increased fine... and asked for a repeat of the plea. Bill told him his plea was 'insanity' and the Beak trebled up on the fine.
Bill is still in touch by e-Mail. Was at the Malaysian GP just gone. I owe him an e-mail -- I'll mention you both.
Keep well, John.
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:55 pm

Thanks for that John, it would be nice to know how Bill is, drag him on the forum, they have the internet in Oz Very Happy
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PostSubject: Niffy   Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:36 pm

Hi Guys,

I am pretty certain that Niffy passed on in 1993.

Really enjoyed reading all this - honest!

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:10 am

According to Motorsport Mermorial (yes really) Niffy lost his life at the 1994 MGP.

Rusty
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john bass

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PostSubject: Niffy...   Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:46 pm

Thanks Rusty!
I thought it was earlier.
Must do an article on him soon.
He was a good friend and I unnecessarilly swore at him a couple of times.
On the 19th May 1973 (cor! a long time ago...) Niffy was leading the first Novice race at Llandow and crashed at the bottom bend. He'd broken his ankle and that foot (forget which) was facing backwards! He was more concerned about his motor ( we'd gone in his Ford) and his Bantam.

After the meeting we drove to Bridgend Hospital to see him before making the trip home. They'd operated and saved his foot. Bill Lawrence and Eve were in the back and a long haired, East Ender was in the front passenger seat. None of them had a licence to drive!
After a hard day of racing I had about 7 hours - in total of driving Niff's
car, whilst all three slept soundly. I bought a packet of cigs in Cardiff (they had me stop for them to have a Chinese nosh) and finished the 19 cigs by Heston Services. It was the only way to stay awake and I would have thought they'd been kippered but there were no complaints.

Bye the bye Rusty, would you know the photographer at Landow that day
and if he's still capable of speech and moving... I'd like to contact whomever took the action pics that day.

Stay cool and keep well,
JayBee.
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:30 pm

I remember Niffy's Llandow prang well, i was in that race and as green as grass. It slowed me up a bit(if that's possible). I must admit i was shaken by it, as i said i was a total raw beginner and it was probably my first expieriance of witnessing a heavy fall at close quarters. Mind you, saying that, i dropped it in my first race, Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:32 am

OK guys here is some more sloppy nostalgia for you that involves some of the good old guys mentioned in this section.
After a very feeble attempt to race motor cycles with the BRC in the early sixty's I was persuaded to try again by my old mucker Roger Louis (Mr. Albany Alarms) in the mid seventy's.
I built a 250 Ducati to race in single cylinder events, mostly from parts that I bought off Dave Saltwell.
Fool that I am with no knowledge of the circuit or transport to get there, I entered my first race at Cadwell. Roger collected my bike and toolbox from Basildon and handed them over to Bill Lawrence at the club meeting in the east end before the race. Bill had kindly offered to take my bike to Cadwell but with Eve, Himself, Eric Sumption and there bikes, there was no room for me.
So while Bill trundled along in an old overloaded van, I travelled in comfort with Niffy in his new VW caravanet with his Ducati in tow. Neither one of them would take a Penny for petrol, saying they were going there anyway!

The following morning wearing a tight fitting set of spare leathers that I had borrowed from Mick Scott I ventured out for practise.
I was later to find out that I was not in fact practising but simply cruising around following others.
After a dinner break of chain smoking and almost as many visits to the loo it's time to race.
It's a mixed S/C and Open 250 race. If I remember rightly in the same race were, Wobblyman'BDS' Bill'Greeves' Pete.T.'TZ'
I'm on the second row,heart thumping and staring at Niffys back. The flag drops. I heave the bike forward and with the first bump she fires up (bring back bump starts you poofy pups)Still sat side saddle I pass Niffy, Hard on the brakes into the hair pin and bloody hell coming out of it I'm in the lead! As I thunder up the hill I realise I haven't got a clue where I'm going and that I had learnt nothing from practise other than every corner is blind. I roll off far to early for the fist right-hander and threepenny bit my way round it. As I drop my chin on the tank for the back straight some of the quick guys come past both sides of me, including Wobblyman who looks back with a grin. Continuing my charge down the back straight I arrive at the crest that obscures the rest of the straight, and thinking it was the end I rolled off and sat up. As I did,Niffy still on full bore and chin on tank came past. Determined to get him back I dropped back down and screwed the twist grip for all my life, gaining on him hand over fist I was with him half way round the next bend but with good reason he was riding within the tyres limits I wasn't and down I went!
A certain Mr.J. Bass was the eastern centre mag scribe at that time and wrote "Ned wrecked his shiny new bike trying to emulate the clubs stars"
I remember it well because I had to get my dictionary out to see what 'emulate' meant!
NED
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:07 am

Very Happy Great story Ned. I distinctly remember you having the mother of a prang at Snetterton on the Duc, on the pit straight!!!! Tell me my memories ok mate and fill in the blanks.
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PostSubject: Oh dear! Did I say that...?   Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:11 am

Hey Ned & Mick!
Nice ones ... I'm reading that, and in my mind, I am going downhill like a scalded cat (or bat out of hell...whichever...) to Mansell's (that's the left hander at the bottom isn't it? My best corner at Cadwell) or dicing with Wobbley at Llandow. My favourite circuits although the Cadwell hill burnt out many of our clutches.
Did I really say that? -- Ned -- did I really say that? I certainly don't remember the Ducati. Nah! That was nasty of me. (Another pint I owe you).
And was that 'BDS' of Wobbley's that grotty 250 he bummed, bucksheesh off a motorcycle shop in East Ham somewhere? Maybe it wasn't grott when he took it away but it certainly was at Brands when the exhaust pipe fell off on the straight...
Don't want to be dubbed a sexist but who is the Lady Bantam Racer?
Not Peter Williams' sister -- no lady that one -- she got in my way at Llandow such that I had to give up 1st place to Wobbles.
Of course The Wobbleyman insisted he'd beaten me fair and square. And was he ever hopping mad when Andy Boyle lent me the 250 Alpha .
Ooh ah! Shoulder, collar bone, knee, elbow and foot -- are giving me gypp -- but by By 'Eck lad! weren't it fun. Much like the two Glaswegians I saw in Blackpool on their summer hols -- spewing up against a wall -- and telling each other what a really good time they were having.
Take care and keep well,
JayBee.
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:52 pm

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif" border="0" alt="" />


Dunno if this upload will work. Never done one before.
Its the entry form from the BRC Cadwell Park meeting of 22 July 1978.
Entry fee was £1.80 for 7 or 8 lap races and an extravagant £2.05 for 12 lap races. Insurance was a wopping £2.00 for the day.
Since then wages (and petrol prices) have roughly quadrupled. That represents an equivalent at today's prices of less than £50 for a full weekends racing....
No, don't say it...
Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:37 am

I was talking to a young girl who races with Bemsee who lives in my village and she didn't believe me when I told her that my first meeting (Snetterton - March 1980) cost £3.00 per race plus £3.00 insurance, £12.00 in total! She pays anything up to £200.00 for the weekend for 4 races.

Rusty
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PostSubject: Re: Memories of Early BRC Days -- or Sloppy Nostalgia...   Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:22 pm

You ain't wrong Mick. The oil pump had stopped working causing the big end to lock which in turn pulled the piston down tight on the fly wheels like a disk brake, (who said 4 strokes don't seize) The engine locked up just as I was exiting Russel's, I was spat through the screen and rolled half way down the pit straight with the bike nudging me on my way.
It was that crash that got me into Bantams. Roger Louis said I should not wait until I had repaired my bike that was going to take time and money, or I might loose my nerve. He said I should race his Bantam at the next meeting and I agreed.
I was talking with Clare (later to be Mrs Wobbly) in the paddock at the next meeting which was also at Snetterton and she said "there was the worst crash I have ever seen here last time with the rider bouncing along the straight in front of us" Roger laughed and said as long as you keep your fingers resting on the clutch lever it wont happen again.
Any way I raced his bike and even though I couldn't keep it in the power range and do it justice I loved it. I remember being shoulder to shoulder with Bill Lane for the entire race. To me that is what real racing is all about, it's not how fast but how close it is.
By the time we were at Snetterton again the Duke was repaired but Webby had seen how I had enjoyed my first Bantam race and offered me a ride on his. Keith gave me no info on how to ride the bike or what the power band was. My only instructions were " I don't care where you finish as long as it's in front of Martin Baldwin" Well after a ding dong scrap with Martin, Keith went home happy and the Bantam bug had bit.
NED
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PostSubject: Oh Heck! Wott 'ave I gorn and done!   Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:11 pm

Hey Ned!
Lovely story. You are right, it was the close racing that mattered.
One time at Llandow I was 4th and only one wheelbase length behind the winner. We'd swapped the lead thro'out 6 laps. Like a 'square four' as we circulated. I hadn't learned the low cunning of waiting to show what you got until nearly the end.

Oh heck! I dunn it again -- I came on line to see if my e-mail had been answered and I end up writing this crap!
Keep yer end up lad!
Oh heck! Annuvver wunn! I keep saying the wrong things!
Keep well, JayBee.
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