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 Section for Specials

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les2012



Number of posts : 123
Registration date : 2011-12-15

PostSubject: Section for Specials   Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:41 am

Could the specials not combine within the Bantam races?. I appreciate there is the 175/ 186 class, Best novice ect but now I see these ultra modifications being built useing different barrels grafted onto the Bantam cases and gearbox, why not after all the work that has gone into them let them compete alongside in a specials class ?. I can see a lot of thinking prevails and maybe not a plausible idea but it may enlarge the grids a bit.
How would it work?. Maybe start with the 250cc class, Start behind the regular Bantams useing a special number ie, S50-S16 and so on, maybe food for thought.

All this is just an idea I have.

All the best,

Les2012.
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nigel breeze

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Registration date : 2007-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:52 am

i think your right les.. but where do you draw the line... scratch looks as though some new rules with regard to gearboxes is being submitted . you have to ask yourself why? is it to cover those who have gone beyond the existing rules for some time? as we know 3 gears are very restricting. study
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dansofield550

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Registration date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 pm

Think your barking up the wrong tree Nigel having seen inside a lot of engines I've not seen any thing like odd gears, in fact I've lent gears and bits to folk and even made them gears, you maybe should ask yourself why you think someone is faster? But for that answer you'd have to actually turn up and race! Rather than tinker a special class sound like a good idea but I'm doubtful there'd be enough entrants given the time needed etc for building

The real power difference your looking for is most likely lurking in the ignition, it's seldom touched on here ,
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Trevor Amos



Number of posts : 870
Registration date : 2010-08-13

PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:20 pm

The real power difference your looking for is most likely lurking in the ignition, it's seldom touched on here

Could be that you are correct there Dan, so, can we all look forward to an in depth article from you? I for one are always enthusiastic about discovering what makes Bantams perform well !

Cheers, Trevor
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nigel breeze

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Registration date : 2007-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:49 pm

yes dan i should turn up and race lol! , but with my bantam, ive found it very frustrating. I raced an aprilia rs 125 2 seasons back with emra, to get some track time in, which i enjoyed except when i fell off🇳🇴 . i realised then you cant really turn up unaided, sadly most my mates love propping up the bar ( which i will be doing as well in a couple of hours, if you cant beat em , join em:lol!: ) ive tried to put together a water cooled engine which allows you pick up another barrel and parts more easily. For me , spending time trying to make an old cast bantam barrel water-cooled, which could end up spending hours making ,only to do it wrong or trash it first time out. affraid I do believe you are right though regarding ignitions, at least with the 175. Would a 175 engine with programmable ignition be classed as a special? not to much to do there in changing class, if such a class existed. scratch

morning Trevor lol! your never to late to learn something new.... lol! stand by your bed study
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:44 am

Drinking beer is indeed easier! I'm not going to pretend to know what to tell you about ignition timing , but you'd be surprised at the level of movement a good system will do, especially on the closed throttle, + -40 degrees,if I were to just paint a picture of what I think is ideal it'll be this, a Rex or Brian air cooled 125, a fully programmable ignition linked to revs speed and gas mixture , a powervalve , and make it as light as possible on the cycle parts , I don't think it's too critical on stroke but you need torque, so longish stroke and a power valve will help there.
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:24 am

Of course if you made one like that ,it's a lot less work than what you tried to do (forget the powervalve to make it easier) with a barrel from something else and water cooling cases and welding great big bits together with all the leaking and distortion etc, so then you could show up and you won't need you mates in the bar to help as there'd be enough of normal bantam folks to help etc, bums on seats and entries is the main drive for most, as if no one shows up it is all finished .
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Ned

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Registration date : 2007-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:28 am

nigel breeze wrote:
looks as though some new rules with regard to gearboxes is being submitted . you have to ask yourself why? is it to cover those who have gone beyond the existing rules for some time? as we know 3 gears are very restricting. study

The rules are being rewritten for more clarification. Not amended. Stop listening to rummer mongers.
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nigel breeze

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PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:21 pm

Well Dan, ive joined both emra and darleymoor mc this year. keeps it close to home for me if i can put some money aside to get out at least a couple of times. It wont be on a bantam though. lol!
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Trevor Amos



Number of posts : 870
Registration date : 2010-08-13

PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:37 pm

The real power difference your looking for is most likely lurking in the ignition, it's seldom touched on here.

Morning Dan,
I`ve thought about what you posted and yes I agree, not too much has been posted here about ignition. What have you in mind for a new post, just the hardware, the actual spark creation and subsequent charge burn or the whole of the combustion cycle, chamber profile , squish effects, ignition timing curve, and so on?
Could be a very interesting topic but better to have a new home and title, any other site watchers have a view on this and more importantly, a contribution to make, there has to be some electronics wizards out there that can help?

Cheers, Trevor
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:00 am

The hint is in my other post , regarding closed throttle, who looks for more power when the throttle is shut?????? Answer ...... a smart arse! You'd be surprised what happens to fuelling ignition and gas pulses etc
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Trevor Amos



Number of posts : 870
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PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:41 am

Sorry Dan that is all a little too abstruse for me, besides I always held the belief that racing was about not closing the throttle? But hey, I`m confused, so what do I know!

Trevor
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Section for Specials   Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:55 am

You want to make power every where and quickly, so timing the ignition will help with pickup and opening the whole exhaust pulses cycle up to optimisation etc I'm afraid I'll not be giving the game away anymore than I have already
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john bass

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PostSubject: opening & shutting...▀   Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:22 pm

Opening & shutting .... hmmm?

Some of us Ancients have sore heads, knees, collar bones, knuckles, elbows and scars on posteriors 'cos we thought racing was when the rider never shut off....

There┤s also a great belief in total shut-off from max speed-load causes piston seizure....!

A quick shut-&-open has another effect ....

Cheers!

JayBee...
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