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SeanFitzpatrick



Number of posts : 6
Age : 29
Localisation : Hull, United Kingdom
Registration date : 2017-07-06

PostSubject: Hello.   Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:15 pm

Good Morning
Found this forum when searching for the MMCRC, after uncovering some of my Grandad's racing cups and shields.
Seeing that some of the forum members are around his age I was wondering if anyone remembers him.
Alan Coxill, married to Margaret ( Cox before she was married and been ill ever since, one of her favourite lines ). Used to race in the sixties and early seventies, won the "M.M.C.R.C.  C Bate, 125cc Bantam Challenge Trophy" in 1970

Picture of him below, not sure when or where it was taken.



Tried finding more about his racing before but didn't know what club he was a member of, so was blindly looking through Bantam and 125cc racing results of the time for his name.
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john bass

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Number of posts : 1721
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: Sounds Familair...   Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:59 am

Alan Coxill sounds familiar Sean andd I have some old BRC Magazines. of taht era, somwhere -- must go hunting.

Could have been he was a "British Formula" club member. We of the the Bantam RC shared the goodwill and if Alan won a Bantam Challenge Trophy he probably borrowed a Bantam from one of our lot to do it.

Cheers

John Bass.
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dansofield550

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Number of posts : 362
Localisation : gravesend kent
Registration date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:13 am

these old photos always make the circuit look in a shocking state by todays standards! the infield looks little better than scrub !
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SeanFitzpatrick



Number of posts : 6
Age : 29
Localisation : Hull, United Kingdom
Registration date : 2017-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:40 am

As far as I'm aware, John, he did all of his own work on his bikes as he was a mechanic. In fact I think he did the odd bit of work for others.
Looking at your profile picture, it looks uncannily like it was taken from the same angle.

This is a picture of them both from what looks to be the right era. Lived in Smethwick in the West Midlands.



The thing that gets me is he was never sentimental, and actually paid somebody to scrap his garage and everything in it (including his racing bantam) about 10 years ago, ie he paid them money to take his bike away, would have loved to have had that to look after.
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SeanFitzpatrick



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Age : 29
Localisation : Hull, United Kingdom
Registration date : 2017-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:51 am

dansofield550 wrote:
these old photos always make the circuit look in a shocking state by todays standards! the infield looks little better than scrub !
No fancy kerbs either.
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john bass

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Number of posts : 1721
Age : 88
Localisation : Bensberg, Germany
Registration date : 2006-12-06

PostSubject: Pickled Onions...   Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:48 am

Cor! pickled onions -- ain't seen them in decades.

Seriously the face and hair style are familiar (of Alan, I mean) . Why is it i cannot rememember....

Someone has to know ....


Cheers!

JayBee.
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dansofield550

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Number of posts : 362
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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:44 am

you cant remember ? it was only half a century ago!! lol


Last edited by dansofield550 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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john bass

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PostSubject: Pickled onions...   Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:55 am

I was speaking of pickled onions....

Being in Germany, now,  and in many foreign parts before that, I had not seen a jar of pickled onions for something like 50 years.  

Guess I should NOT  try to make jokes on here -- particularly when someone is looking for a relative from way back.

Sorry Sean for that it bit of non helpful interlude. I am still trying to find the old BRC Magazines ... Got stuff in the cellar still not unpacked from Canada....

Just a point about the photo -- that is not a Bantam engine. Looks more like a smaller version Ducati, thatīs why I immediately thought of the Formula Club.


Cheers!

JayBee........
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:01 am

[quote="john bass"]I was speaking of pickled onions....


im more puzzled by a whole bag of sugar needed on the buffet table? , but there you go ! lol old photos are alway fun to look at and wonder of the lives and times, interesting stuff


the racing photo does look like a bike other than a bantam, a mystery though as is would seem to have a 2 stroke exhaust , did ducatis make a 2 stroke? the cylinder is leaning forward a lot and seems to have valve gear on top ............but then it seems to have a bantam clutch side cover with the two screws in the front close together ,
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bkirkwood



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Age : 68
Localisation : west yorkshire
Registration date : 2011-05-31

PostSubject: Hello   Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:35 pm

The M.M.C.R.C was i believe the Midland motorcycle racing club. You could try some of the old racing sites on Facebook like Motorcycle racing reveries or or on line Motorcycle racing nostalgia on the Autosport Forum website sorry i can't be more helpful. Bill
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john bass

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PostSubject: Still looking....   Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:35 am

Still looking....

Regards the picture: they looked a very happy couple and that might be because pickled onions were considered to keep you regular... Bag of sugar showed they`d got visitors and were reasonably well off.

A lovely picture....

Fact he gave away his Bantam Sean was how we were in those days. I gave both Icarus-! and Icarus-2 to the club plus a lot of Close-Ratio gears worth a bomb, when I went to Canada. We didnīt earn much by today's stanards but we didnīt see pound signs staring out of everything as today.

Iīd reckon your granparents were happy, Sean and that is something a lot of people cannot say these days. A lot donīt know their own parents much less their grand ones. . My Mum and Dad were always joking and contrary to the ways of the day they kissed each other in front of my Sister and I whilst our neighbours were always rowing and smashing up furniture.

I reckon the engine is Ducati because there appears to be a tube going up to the cylinder head with two rocker covers which might well mean it had Desmodromic valve gear (no valve springs) and I'd say the chaincase is too snall to be Bantam....

How about that Dan?

All the best,

Cheers!

JayBee....




.


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john bass

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PostSubject: You are probably right--   Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:42 am

You are probably right Bill -- and I'd reckon Sean was probably lent that machine if he owned a Bantam. The Bantam Racing was known as "Racing On The Cheap" and it didnīt take much for an amateur racer of those days to lend a bike to another rider.,,,

I wonder if that still happens?

JB...
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:15 am

yes john , still bikes getting lent out, last race at cadwell, a new starter was lent a bike for the whole weekend , one of ians was lent to i think two different riders , i was lent one too at lydden , still a friendly club and still full of folks that will and do help when ever they can,

i may even borrow one myself ,now i no longer have my own bike!
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SeanFitzpatrick



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Localisation : Hull, United Kingdom
Registration date : 2017-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:59 am

No John, joke away.
Im thinking the sugar may have been for strawberries seeing as they're having a buffet, my nan loved strawberries.
Not looking for my Grandad would just be nice to know a little more about his racing days really, he passed three years ago, just came across his trophies in my mum's shed and made it have me a little more information about the clubs he raced with. He's got a little tankard with Bantam Racing Club on it.

I'll upload a higher resolution version of that picture later on, may give you a better chance of identifying the bike/engine.

I ride bikes but never done a track day, think I shall be looking to get myself a bantam project sometime in the not too distant future.
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SeanFitzpatrick



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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:19 am




[url=https://servimg.com/view/19729938/6[/url]

Better pictures for your perusal.
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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:26 am

look more and more bantam like, the centre plug head, early small diameter exspansion chamber exhaust , even has the cast part on the bottom loop of the mail frame, cylinder look odd though, maybe an ajax type??
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Ned

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Registration date : 2007-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:52 am

Definitely looks like a bantam egg (clutch cover) Think Dan could be right about 'Ajax' conversion. Too early for a desmo Ducati John.

Regarding the circuit Dan - Us old timers preferred them like that and moaned like hell when circuit owners started adding concrete cow pats and rumble strips for the benefit of the car fraternity with no regards to bikers, money talks.

Sod the pickled onions, am I the only one that spotted the bowl off trifle ? there would be none of that left if I was there.

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bkirkwood



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Localisation : west yorkshire
Registration date : 2011-05-31

PostSubject: hello   Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:49 pm

Definitely looks like a Ajax head. Ajax cylinders and heads are back in production for Villiers 6E 8E and 9E engines for pre 65 trials currently no Bantam heads available but that might change with the popularity of trials Bantams.
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SeanFitzpatrick



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Registration date : 2017-07-06

PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:56 pm

I did think it was a bit strange, he'd never mentioned a Ducati engined bike.

There was always a fair amount of trifle around at parties, got some huge trifle bowls lol.
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john bass

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PostSubject: I was moiles wrong...   Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:30 am

I was miles wrong and glad a few more have got in on it. Canīt make any excuses but have gone cross-eyed looking for A. Coxill and the C.Bate Trophy Race in some old mags... Either too old or too young but I was looking for the two names....... ...

Up to the time I finished with the club there hadn`t been any fatalities and I think there were two sometime later and just wondered if there was any connection with the Trophy name -- oh! oh! but that would take the time of Mr Bate back earlier -- too early -- maybe he was a celebrity of some sort ...? I should leave it alone but it is like memories of some fantastic moments in my life that just happened because -- by accident or whatever -- I got myself involved.
I hadn't had anything to do with motocycles -- nine yeras after retiring fromj Grass Tracking -- and was told now the kids were getting on I ought to get myself another motorcyce, never thinking, of course, it'd be a Road Racing Bantam....The Bantam was a joke up until I found out what it realyl was...

Bill might be closest -- did the MMCRC club run Bantam races? -- but thereīs a tankard with BRC...Probably the names are there in the archives of MMCRC ... I cannot find anything in BRC Mags I have for the year of 1970 but I shall go on looking.

Fact is over the seasons since it all started there must have been several hundred Bantam racers -- I wonder
if it might have run into more....

Very weird though, was that I discovered I had finsihed 6th in a Bantam Trials day in Kent... That after having fallen -- backwards -- into a whacking great pond, got cold and fed up with Trials.

Another thing, it cost only 40P entry -- in 1969 -- to spectate at a Cadwell BRC meeting and some people were moaning about that.


Cheers!

JayBee.
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john bass

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PostSubject: Happiness ........???   Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:41 am

Whilst working for Ford Dunton, Basildon I was sent on a course where a pychairtist was among the organisers
who contributed to conclusions at the end of 4 days...

I know what you are thinking -- this is on the level...

During a free period we were at the bar and the "Shrink" and I got talking. Your definition of Happiness? he asked.

.... Without thinking I immediately answered,
... "Its finishing -- completing, I mean -- a Bantam race that had been beset with problems beforehand."
.... He looked totally bewildered, "Problems?" he muttered and I carried on listing at least 10 difficulties that would stop me getting to the circuit and the another ten in getting through scrutineering, in getting Icarus-1 to start, practice and then the run-&-bump race start..."
He said, "Very strange" and walked away muttering, "The others I've asked did have problems like being at the beach and the kids getting sick ...."

... Of course: The ultimate happiness was winning a race in which there was no chance for Icarus-1....

... Sorry Sean. I was unable to find anything in BRC mags and I reckon Bill was right: you'll need an ancient member of the MMCRC club. Your grandad was a member of the Bantam Club racing at a MMCRC club race meeting.

... I looked at the photo and immediately saw the definition of happiness. Wonderful!!

... If I were asked that sme question again Iīd reply, happiness was that photo of your grandparents and for me at the moment it would be a pint of good English beer, a plate of stilton with some pickled onions.

Cheers!

JayBee.....









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Trevor Amos



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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:28 am

Don`t forget the Melton Mowbray pork pie John, sounds like you now have all the ingredients for a fine picnic !

cheers for the nostalgia.

Trevor
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john bass

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PostSubject: With 5 gears ...   Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:43 am

Thanks Trevor!

With the ABS 250 (Andy Boyle's Alpha... ), 5 gears and no neccessity to slip the clutch after the hairpin, going up the hill to Charlies was happiness indeed.

Not that racing the Bantam at Cadwell was nullified by the above it was that time was lost on the hill and the cluch plates often needed renewal during the day....

What fun it was to come down from Park ....


Oh oh oh!

Cheers!

John .....
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Ned

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PostSubject: Re: Hello.   Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:28 am

john bass wrote:
Thanks Trevor!

Not that racing the Bantam at Cadwell was nullified by the above it was that time was lost on the hill and the cluch plates often needed renewal during the day....

What fun it was to come down from Park ...

John .....

And the first photo looks like it's a downhill left hander, so it could be Mansfield at Cadwell.
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john bass

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PostSubject: Right Ned....   Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:16 am

Right Ned!
Before they tarted up Cadwell ...

Mansfield was my favourite corner. I passed N...T... (the locals called him Tex) 4 times there  during a race and on the fifth time he stuck his knee into me as we left the hairpin and I went off  the track but maintained control....

Someone from the depths of the Midlands has got to read Seanīs post -- before its too late.

Good one though Sean -- got us woken up! ... for a bit ...(and reminded me of pickled onions!!)...

Cheers!

John-Boy!
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