racer on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BSA-BANTAM-DRAGON-VINTAGE-RACER-VICKERY-NEATH-WALES-/160583256845?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2563820b0d

I saw that a few days ago Robbie. Was unsure whether to post it on here seeing most of the stuff I post does clutter it up a bit. I've got a message from the seller as well if you want me to copy it here if you like. Does anyone remember John Vickery ?

Thank you for your interest. The 'bike was purchased about ten years ago from Hedley's wife from his estate. after his death, Mrs. Vickery died a few years back.
The racing era that Hedley was involved in was when Bantams were new i.e. 50's/60's.
He and his business partner produced the 'HJH' range of road going machines, some Bantam engined but mostly with Villiers engines, there seems to be no exact record of the no' of machines produced but it is thought to be in the region of 400, this was in the mid fifties. Obviously many of the parts used were off the shelf, frames were either made to measure or modified from various donor makes.
Hedley was the engineer whilst his partner was the business manager, the 'Company' failed due to a problem with the Inland Revenue,the Dragon Motorcycle works was at 'Canal Side, Neath'.
This is where, when production of HJH motorcycles ceased Hedley continued with a general motorcycle repairs and engineering business, untill his retirement also building his own and for customers, Bantam based 'competition' 'bikes and fettling and tuning competition/sports 'bikes for local riders.
Hedley competed in just about every section of motorcycle sport and was a mentor to many of the local lads who wished to go down a similar route.
His competition period was very much centered in south Wales and as far as I can find out he didn't venture any further than that. When you consider that road racing, sprinting, trials, hillclimbs, scrambles and sand racing were all available on his doorstep perhaps there was no need for him to travel further afield.
I have received several very interesting emails from people in the Neath area that new Hedley and the consensus is that the racer on offer is from the late 60's to mid 70's and perhaps a machine built for a customer and then taken back, but so far no more info than that.
By all means circulate this info but bare in mind Hedley's 'era' is now some 50 or so years ago.

T

possibly a nice bit of history but scrap as a current racer, better to spend the £900 on building a good competitive bike.

quess for some it would be nice to have an old classic racer as an orniment, but you could put one together for less than a few hundred quid



wouldn't need fancy expensive internals as it wouldn't be running, just a can of mr sheen from the pound shop

Robbie,Tim,Tony & all ,
saw the listing ,emailed the seller and veiwed the bant its proper bit of late fiftys history, dont know that the mr sheen would do the job Tony anyway as it was on my door step had to have a look.I think anyone of us would appreciate the work thats gone into it . I wonder how many of these old historic bantam races got scrapped my guess is hundreds?
The guy selling the bike is dead genuine hes an ex vmcc racer himself knows some of the current riders as well.
hopefully it will go to a good home and be saved .

regards Nick

Oi Tony

you hurt my feelings:- My bike older than this, has not changed since my dad built the engine in 1960 - 61 before I was born, even has the same crank barrel and head, only difference is the reed valve on the back, and carb and lots of hours in the shed, my rolling chassis was built by and raced by John Danks it competed in the TT from 61 to 66 - SO leave out the TOO OLD AND useful for scrap bit, I feel this little bike could be the basis for a good new racer, I think the price is way over the top but they will realise when it does not sell, anyway I would consider it worth something as it has close ratio and clearly been well engineered, and the wheels to, so i would expect it to fetch from £150 to £300, I believe the gear box worth at least £150 do you not agree, ?

Derek

Lessons learned today :- wait for a cheap 60's Bantam which is going to be thrown away rather than spend over a grand so far and it doesn't even start! Whoops.

T

Well, it ended with no bids, think this is part of the challenge we face with these older bikes. There are a few useful parts that could be recovered and reused but I agree with Derek needs to be £250 not £900, it would help if a few of these "in the shed" bikes came onto the market at the right price as it would be a great source of spares and maybe a starting point for new builds. Ocassionally perhaps a tify up and an entry for the 175 supersport class or pre 73 special.

Has anyone succesfully sold a recent Bantam Race Bike on Ebay, I remember Andy Mouldens being listed but I dont think that attracted a bid, did it ?

Anyone know this one ? £1395

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BSA-BANTAM-CLASSIC-RACER-SPRINT-PARADE-RACE-BIKE-/320699787732?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4aab3269d4

James

James Cook wrote:

it would help if a few of these "in the shed" bikes came onto the market at the right price as it would be a great source of spares and maybe a starting point for new builds. Ocassionally perhaps a tify up and an entry for the 175 supersport class or pre 73 special.

James

"Spares"? Would've been better to just use them to use as a reliable source for newcomers, like myself, and others like Ed and Adam..

T

Totally agree with you Derek and James if these bikes come up at £200 then snap them up. But most on ebay are very overpriced for todays racing devolopment, like James says Andy's bike didn't go for much more. Derek big question would you use from this bike? thinking current season and bearing in mind you want to finish races at the cost of £300 + for a weekends racing. If engine is D1 and needs major overal is it worth it. Also frames and engine casing(starting point) are not too expensive think my frame was £10 and casing £15. Frame looks interesting on this bike and a lot of work and devolopment seems to of taken place but that's for the 60s (look at Michael Brown's) and maybe the fella was small or a different size to you. Cute bike but if a newcomer wants to race it don't think it's a good starting point at that price. The other one is well past this point nearly £1400, pretty yes but don't think the skin on the rice pudding should worry too much

I wish the seller good luck with the sale has he seems a decent chap

Happy bantaming chaps

Tony

ps best advice for beginers IMO is build with advice from current riders(loads out there) getting Brian to do barrel etc or buy current machine with proven track history

pps Must get mine done this year, after a front end (Tom style yokes etc) drum or disc but must be top quality

Hi All,

In my opinion, i completely agree about building your own bike from advice and help from current racers as i think most complete bikes stay with in the group. I do feel that it would be good to have atleast a basis to start on what to go with as although the rules say min and max there is no start to progress from without trawling through all topics or having to probably ask loads of questions which you guys all know but hear all the time. i understand not all of us have the benefit of living close to other racers or knowing the right people to get the bits done which may plague us moving forward.

Saying that it has not put us off and we will finish the bike and get out there even if it is not how everyone else does it.


Regards



Eddie

Hi Tony hope your well my friend, I think your all missing a point, you have to start somewhere, these bikes raced before, so why not again, my bike is identical to how it was raced when I started, other than a different rod and reed valve on the back of the barrel, Ok I'm not winning races with it, but more importantly, I'm having loads of fun. The reality for me is - you ant going to challenge the front three, never mind win in the first two years, unless you have at least 2 years of development, or bike already developed, thats how this class is and has always been since Tom Built the firsst of the P.Styles bikes, this forced many others to follow suit build short strokes many built them without any proper knowledge in engineering, thes e were bodged, the bantam tunning manual was produced to help those who lacked the know how, to buld a short stroke engine, there were many, many that had been made by this time but badly, thes in my opinion are worse than the old long strokes, remeber Mr hunter did an 80mph lap at snetterton so original bikes can be made to go quickly- infact any engine can be made fast and reliable, its just time and knowledge, meticulas assembly, and a little elbow grease, many who were not able to build a short stroke just gave up, because they had the same opion as you have, on this.

it takes time to hone an egine to become quick and reliable, but it also takes longer to learn how to ride it quickly too, especially for beginners, for me its enjoyable building a bantam then racing what you built, weather it be building a new bike, or restoring an old one, there is no difference, for sure a d1 barrel is to be avoided, for a short stroke build, but Fred and GTodd had one doing well over 100MPH so did the Hunters.

so to all who have commented on this I think your talking Sensored, any bike can be made fast/reliable and quick enough to win, its just time and knowledge, and a little inginuety and hard fast riding.

No every one who builds bantams builds just to win, sure every one wants to, we have a D1 of some fame, it will one day be restored, and raced too. I think your wrong to say the things you have, I'm prity sure they are worth a lot more than £200. you jokers. ! i would say a minimum £300 a lot more for a runner/ more in good condition/ more if race ready.

How much would a close ratio box cost ? wheels? / a decent race ready frame ? etc etc. ok the barrel may not be ideal for a short stroke but, is it going to be turned into one.

I would ask that you all should be more careful of how you approach this while answering these posts, on here,! be mindful of who looks! and try not to be so negative or opinionated - as this is what it is! "your opinions while always IMPORTANT / welcome,", are not actually the same as everyone's or how its seen!. And it's not my opinion.

All the good work being done would go up in smoke, and COULD put off the enthusiastic punter who would take on what seems to me as a cracking piece of history, in a project like this, you got to start somewhere to begin with then, over time move to a more modern / faster, set up if you enjoy it, but at least they are able to start with while they embark on a faster more modern motor.

regards Derek

Derek,


Thanks for herding me into the pen of all talking censored, i was merely making points on a scratch build. From what you are saying then maybe a timeline static display for the bantams would be a good idea at an event eg 1000 bikes. What has been run, what can be run and what is run so that people can see that it can be done, not that my opinion matters.


Regards



Eddie

Very True Derek !! something that has raced before should be easy(?!) to race again -
admittedly nearer the back of the field. New tyres are a must thought. Yep Tony contact
breakers want to be the first thing to be replaced with a decent ignition. Both my bikes
run D1 cylinders under all that metalwork- no liner,no themal break!!