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 Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!

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dansofield550

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:31 am

I buy and have been buying classic racer for a few years , I'm sure there were snippets of bantam racing in there but up until the brands meeting id never seen one before or lnew a thing about them, it only took a little bit of a spark of an idea and I was hooked.

Now this year at brands I did notice an awful lot of people asked about the bikes , a lot of comments were " what they still race these?!" Then a more interested look Followed .


Last edited by dansofield550 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shelley1605



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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:03 am

Hi all,

Just looking through the comments.. There's some great ideas flying around at the minute.

I love the idea of race reports!! Has anyone got a budding jornalist in thier family? Maybe someone young and looking at a career in media? I think it would be a great way for them to start and maybe they could write something that could get younger people interested too??

I have to say as well.. I certainly think that 'prettier' looking fairings could really make a difference.. This, I believe, could really interest young lads if they see that they can be shiny ans sexy looking too!! Just look at all the young lads that love car modifications! They think it will attract the ladies apparently -_- hmm... But obviously this is really difficult to achieve.. Especially mid season when finances and concentration is focused on trying to keep the bike working and competetive!! So I'm not sure that this could work realistically!?

If not some attractive grid girls to wave the flags??? Wink it appears to work for the speedway!!! Wink hehe!!

Just a couple of thoughts from somewhat an 'outsiders' view??!!

Shelley Wink
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ted

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PostSubject: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!    Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:31 am

There you go, a wonan bring SEX into it.(please all form a que behind me and many others)
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ted

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PostSubject: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:39 am

Is that an offer to be a brolly girl shelley. I'll buy a ticket if Rob won't take me round the back of the bike sheds.Oh that may sound wrong as well.
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Shelley1605



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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:51 am

Haha thanks Ted you are very kind! However, I don't have the legs to be a brolly girl.. And I don't think Rob would be too impressed!! He's have to do everything himself Wink

Thinking about it.. The ladies on the track wouldn't be a good idea!! You guys wouldn't be concentrating on the flags!!! Wink

Shelley Wink
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john bass

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PostSubject: Profile again!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:39 am

Profile again!

Shelley! you are just making excuses for not using your profile to good effect.

Am I thinking of naked (no fairing) Bantams or something else???

A lot of sound commentary on this subject.

The budding reporter, spoken of, would have to attend the whole week-end for six weekends of the season. I see an immediate difficulty for one volunteer doing the whole season´s travelling and accomodation at six different venues unless he´s either well-off or gets support from other members of the Bantam fraternity.

If the offer of assistance was made that a budding MC journalist would get assistance -- be it only in transport to and from meetings, or some other form of help, over the week-end it might attract this young, budding reporter....

Thinking of things naked -- otherwise I fall asleep!

cheers!
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Shelley1605



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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 am

Well mentioned John on the travelling.. I find it difficult as I travel separately to Rob, so i know how difficult this can be... Hense why I mentioned maybe a family member who would be able to travel with a racer.. Keep cost ect down? Maybe possibly a wife or partner who would like some involvement in what the other half is doing? (Or maybe most lads use these weekends as an escape?) Wink I don't know what the answer.. But just keeping the suggestions rolling!

Keep behaving!! Wink
Shelley
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john bass

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PostSubject: Thanks Shelley...   Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:54 pm

Thanks Shelley ... forget what I said before....

Reporting on what happened at a meeting -- as its all dynamically happening -- with all the noise and irate riders working on their bikes must be quite challenging. The lunch break must be too short to get everything and when they are packing up at the end -- with some going off early must make it difficult...
I suppose the real reporting aces make up an imaginary -- or real -- list of names to nobble and then pick up bits as they go along.

Speaking of aces reminded of a Cadwell meeting -- way way back in the dim past of naked bantams and na... {[(Uh oh! John-Boy was slipping away there ...)]}

... when `Ace´ John Brown of MCN accosted me in the pits and shouted above the loud cackle of too many tuned exhausts, "Congratulaions you´ve done well today ..." I replied that I was second in my first race, third in my second race and was first in my 3rd race... (Only INTERMEDIATES, of course) and even though there was all that noise -- and we had to shout -- he reported that correctly.

What he missed -- it happened later -- in the 4th race was that I ran into the back of a rider name Benn (not Mole -- probably his brother?), did a high-sider which cracked a vertebrae in my neck which still, really hurts 43 years later.

Uhhh! That´s what a race pits reporter MUST avoid -- as above -- is the meeting up with old fogeys who hang onto him like a slobbering leech as if he´s the reporter´s long-lost brother and going over hours of their nauseating nostalgia.
Whilst the young-&-up-coming reporter might learn some new things (s)he´d be amazed at -- along with new bits of the British language -- (s)he´d surely lose a lot of valuable time.

Come to think of it -- the September Cadwell pits seemed full of old fogeys -- mostly limping about in dirty racing leathers.

About time to silently, creep away...
Cheers!
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undredseesee



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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:05 pm


In my previous post I wrote: ‘If the object of raising your club’s profile is to encourage more riders…’

But there is a distinction to be made between those two concepts because they are not necessarily the same thing. ‘Raising the profile’ may be concerned with how the Club presents itself, how it is perceived and the esteem (or otherwise) in which it is held. And let’s be honest, egos are hugely important. Riders like to see their efforts rewarded in write-ups and photographs, and that’s good for individuals and good for the Club. Of course a successfully promoted club can also expect to receive enquiries from would-be racers.

I think the fairing thing, the case being made for naked machines, is perhaps being overstated. It would be slightly absurd to believe the use of fairings is a significant discouragement for new participants, and nobody is seriously arguing that the 125s and 175s should lose their fairings. Although an entry-level class might benefit from their omission as part of a low cost introduction to the sport of motorcycle racing, which is what the hugely popular Bantam Racing Club used to be, with a waiting list to join and reserves at every meeting!

However it is also true that, as someone pointed out elsewhere, fairings make Bantams look like every other racing motorcycle, which does to some extent work against the uniqueness of the Bantam formulae. At the Festival of 1000 Bikes there was an excellent promotion of the Bantams both on track and on the Club Stand. In the former case I witnessed the Bantams circulating at speeds equal to or greater than those of machines with several times the engine size. Impressive as it was, the average spectator had no way of identifying those bikes as Bantams, and they might have been any of the smaller capacity two-stroke racers on track. I should add that the problem of identification was compounded by the fact that the race numbers on the bike’s fairings did not match the numbers given in the programme (spectators have difficulty seeing the smaller blue Festival number carried on the front of the bikes).

In truth the notion of hoards of plunger-framed machines and resurrected, lightly breathed-on 150cc ride-to-work Bantams droning round six laps behind the two existing classes is the stuff of nightmares. I'm fairly sure nobody wants to see that!

As a mere visitor to this site it is not really for me to say how a sensible entry-level class could be comprised but I can’t help feeling that such a class, if it were introduced, would be extremely popular.
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alan
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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:50 pm

The 175 class is intended to be the entry level for new bantam racers, perhaps we should make this more obvious to all, as it is much easier to build a 175 motor than a 125 by a VERY long way.
Most new builders find things like cranks and barrels a bit on the daunting side, but if they seek out Brian White he can build motors at a very reasonable price and they ARE reliable and Good motors.
The cost of a fairing is very small by comparison to the rest of the build so no bar to a new starter, and no active racer that I know of wants to go naked with their bikes, but new starters could anyway as it is not an essential requirement!
Cheers,
Alan
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mjpowell

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:30 pm

Yes Alan your right.. does this mean every 18 years we have to introduce a new slower class and dumb down the speeds of bantams?

True enough it should be cheap to build a '175' thats half decent anyway? I know Snowy's bike that has won the class 3 times has 22bhp(2008) but
most others are i think 15-20bhp. A standard D14/B175 is 12bhp so another 3bhp should make it possible to cirulate at the back of the field.

Howards right ref Festival of 1000 Bikes - on track our bikes were fast - but invisible - Big numbers everywhere next year people...

Regards Mike

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john bass

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PostSubject: Low Price Fairings...   Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:53 pm

Nicely put Alan -- so I´ll just post this and shut up about going naked...

...anywhere -- but not everywhere...

Icarus-1 (as I have said many times before, on here) cost 80quid to build in 1967.
The fairing in 1971 cost 30 pounds (and the bloke selling it said he given me a rebate as a Club racer...) so according to my reckoning it was 30/110
= 27.3% of total cost of Icarus-1 in Chic form C.T.B. -- as cost to build.

So if the price is very small -- as you say -- then the more modern fairings must cost a lot less than 27% of total cost, Chic -- or put the other way (30/80) the fairing was 37.5% total cost of already built Icarus-1 Bantam.

So we know now I was wrong about CB & battery ignition -- modern electronics like lap-tops & computers ARE cheaper now than they were way back in those grim dark days thus making electronic ignition cheaper now than when we had looked at the Hall-Effect system of those days which did need a battery ...

This must prove that I am slipping badly and ought to keep up with electronic developments and should apologize for making a fuss... SORRY!

Yet no one -- according to my reading -- on here -- has said what the real costs of buying a 125 Bantam ready to race, a Championship winning 125 Bantam or a 175 Racing Bantam at Low Cost are....???

Cost to DIY a Bantam, á la Icarus-1, is quite different depending on having friends with machine-shops and welding facilities etc...etc...

Perhaps ex-Spares Sec, Sticky Mick remembers what a Top Notch 125 Bantam
cost in those Hoop & Grapes, Holborn days -- oh how they were in GOD days -- Good Old Days -- with a pint of bitter at less than Two Bob!

JUST SEEN IT -- Mick Scutt as 2012, 175 Champ -- CONGRATULAIONS YOUNG MAN
Cheers!
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ted

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PostSubject: raising the profile of bantam racing   Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:38 pm

Hi. Mike how about fair sized logos on the fairings with BSA BANTAM at the top with BHR under the number plate. With the amount of enthusiasm James has shower maybe some help could be found to fund them. If a dozen were purchased the cost should not be high.
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alan
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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:26 am

My perception of costs as they are now (and perhaps others may chip in and correct the list?).

1. Frame: £25.00
2. Basic rear hub and wheel build: £140-160
3. Forks: £20 - £150 second hand
4. Front hub & wheel build: £140-160
5. Tank seat fairing etc: £230-250
6. Clip ons Make yourself? £0- 50
7. Cables/throttle levers etc £50-100
8. Ignition (PVL): £100
9. Cases/clutch & associated bits: £20 - 100
10. Close gearbox: £250 +
11. Crank conrod etc: £250 +
12. Barrel & liner + Piston: £350 -500
13. Head + machining: £100 +
14. Carb and jets etc: £200 +
15. General machining: £200-400
16. Exhaust: £20-250
17. general welding & small bits: £150-250

I assume only a small amount of facilities available to the average person interested in starting, but the ownership of a welding kit or easy access to a lathe will save huge amounts, and the use of the talents of Brian White will save a lot of money too! and get you started sensibly.
You can start in the 125 class as I did, but you must know that this is a difficult class and I already knew this when I set too with the build of my 125, and intended it to be competitive eventually so started with what was a difficult build. Had I gone 175 it would have been much quicker to get on track and learn the ropes!!
Hope this helps,
Alan
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Trevor Amos



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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:52 am

Hello Alan ,
Perhaps you might add tyres to that list , do we really spend those amounts of money , that`s scary ?!

Doesn`t help anyone of course , but Alpha did me three cranks for less than £100 , those were the days !!

Trevor
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john bass

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PostSubject: Alpha -- very good!   Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:51 pm

Andy Boyle is still happy with Alpha -- they were very good for the 250 ABS bits in those good old days.

Getting back to Alan´s price list, one could assume 2000 to 3000 for a competitive 125 but tyres and fairings were not included. Say total cost
was 3000 and the price of fairings was like the way electronics have not
not got more expensive and in some cases cheaper, so still roughly the
same price as in the 1970 era, then the proportion of total cost would
be 1% -- which really does knock my `Racing on the Cheap´ naked theory
-- right out of the window.

So what does a dealer supplier fairing cost these days?

And tyre costs, of course? We made our first pair of tyres last 3 seasons...

Icarus-1 was initially shod in "Sports Continental" -- front 30/- and rear 2quid.

Enough! No more nauseating nostalgia -- I promise.

Its a good idea for a newcomer to get out on a borrowed Bantam on the practice tracks before ever thinking of entering a race -- the 125 with 3 gears is different from any other motorcycle to race and as Alan said the 175 has the lower cost and having 4 gears is easier to ride & race.

Cheers!


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mjpowell

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:29 am

Judging by Alans list - buying a 2nd hand bantam racer has to be the cheapest way of getting started.
Chris Bennions bantam is still for sale I believe and i've heard of another coming on the market soon.
So i suggest you buy these bikes. Race Bantam's still change hands for £800/1000 pounds where as Peter
Tibbitts champioship winner went for £2k I believe.

If building a 175 refer to Tony Davis' article off the home page.

Alan bantams can be built for less that your forcast.

Mike
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mjpowell

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:34 am

Can anyone make some flyers for us?

Needs a bantam race/racer related pic, BSA Bantam Racing, 2013 race dates and
bsabantamracing.com on it - A5 size or two on an A4

Next Show is at Newark Notts in January....

Cheers Mike
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Edward Pickering

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:55 am

Mike,

I haven't forgot about the poster request, work just very busy. Will try to do something this week.


Eddie
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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:49 am

Hi Mike,
Don't worry about Fliers, I will print a stack off for you as usual, when do you want them?
Alan
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john bass

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PostSubject: No Dumbing Down of Speeds...   Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:59 pm

There can be no third Class -- as I see it -- in Bantam Racing. The Novice Class -- if it were to be such... would be an avoidance of `dumbing down speeds in proper Bantam racing ...´ (by having them on a differnt scheduled grid) but that would probably only be a grid of about 4 or 5...

Practice practice practice at different tracks on Practice Days for the young hopefuls -- still an attraction to get a Bantam, of course.

So I suggest when you adverise, aim for the VMCC & Historic racers -- as well as newcomers -- who might be just retiring (or wanting to retire from the bigger capacity classes) by saying, see how much a Bantam can leave a Rudge, Triump and Norton behind at the tricky circuits like Cadwell.

Perhaps time to be a little boasting.

Yaaawwwnn! ...

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mjpowell

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:19 pm

Hi just thouht it would be easier to be able to print a flyer of the web site and then photocopy at work...
and anyone could print from the web site for any shows,talks gatherings they were going too..
But in answer to your question alan 200

Mike
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alan
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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:28 am

Hi Mike,
Not a bad idea, I am changing the main web site about at the moment so I will see if I can fit that idea into the site for everyone to be able to print. Maybe as a pdf file would be good?
Cheers for that
Alan
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mjpowell

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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:15 am

We have been chatting and thinking for 2 weeks just to recap :-

1 Banners - We have a bantam rider to cover the cost of a banner.

2 Flyers - Alan to post a pdf of a flyer... Edward can you liase with Alan and do one too?
I'm thinking of a 'grovvy' 60's style one? Anyone got an idea?

3 Blogs - ? nothing yet

4 Race reports / articles to magazines - ? PRO pics.... - nothing yet

5 PR5 Road bantam parades - we intend to run a road parade for bantams at Lydden - Rob D and Mike P to liase with
bantam club /BHR

6 Bantam Racing talks to Local VMCC sections - Mike P to take race bike to Mid-Lincs Section early 2013 to part strip bike, explain,
talk, reassemble, answer question and start bike up.

7 Contacts with other interested parties/clubs - Rob D -Bantam club.
Ted -VMCC.
? - CRMC
Mike Redhead -Aintree club?

8 BSB rounds help from VMCC - Ted?

9 Festival of 1000 Bikes - Attendees to use big parade numbers plus BSA BANTAM on fairing ?

Any feedback on above ? other ideas?

Regards Mike


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joe93



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PostSubject: Re: Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!   Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:30 am

hi mike, i can help you with number 6, i can bring my bike aswell to help interest and get people involved in the club, and well up for number 9, 1000 bikes next year with decent size bantam stickers on fairings!
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