MOMENTS!

There have been no objections so far.
This is the last call -- would anyone object to a few moments of MOMENTS? If so speak up and say - NO! - now.
With apologies to my good friend (I hope he still is...) Peter I quote, "... it is wrong to start bringing in moments ... ... it is a matter of resolving forces in a force diagram ... "
Since Peter is a respected star Bantam member and I only an outsider I don´t want to waste valuable web-site space on what many serious Bantamites might think is trivia.
I was always an advocate of keeping the body in line with the centre-line of the bike, although my good mentor Derek reckoned I often leaned the wrong way à la Freddie Frith ...!
In a nutshell it comes down to being able to go quicker when the bulging (bum) parts of the body are not staying in the central-plane of the bike...
That´s why The Doctor (`hedgehog´ in Italian) Rossi always does the `Squats´ and a tweaking of his leathers at the crotch before he goes out... (And not what some folks have suggested ...!).
In a previous reply to Peter I said that such rider, `climbing-off´, activity (in towards the centre point...) reduces the effective radius of curvature ... Surprisingly nobody jumped on that? What was meant was the distance of the C.G. (centre of gravity) of total weight of rider-and-bike to the centre of curvature... NOT the tyre contact patches...
Only if you want to -- take it from there?!
If you are practising or preparing: Go well and keep well!
Aye!
JayBee.

We´ve all had them -- Moments, I mean! Those moments when the blood pumps hot and fast -- and later we wished it hadn´t...
Down Peter...! Not them Moments ...
If you are tall & heavy, like Peter T... the disadvantage of racing thro´corners on a Bantam is obvious. The Moments: of the force-of-gravity and centrifugal force are heftier than with a shorter & lower-weight rider.
You all knew it, of course, the centre-of-gravity(CG) is the prime factor.
Wal Philips(JAP Speedway...) and Maurice Cann (Guzzi road...) with their horizontally inclined cylinders knew it...
The CG is lower for the smaller (lower weight) fellow, hence the forces are less... Those two forces act at the CG but their Moments are effective from the tyre contact patch by their respective lever-arm distances -- horizontal for gravity and vertical for centrifugal...
---Thus the optimum for max speed thro´a bend on a Bantam is a featherweight rider with his chest squashed onto the tank.
---The CG spoken of here is when the rider keeps his body centre-line in the centre-line plane of the bike. Most pictures I´ve seen of you Bantam racers it is so, or nearly so -- although Mike Powell does a frog-leg action and often has his head on backwards ...!
The modern approach -- in GP -- of `hanging-off´ or `hanging-into the bend,´ not only moves the CG -- of total weight of rider and bike -- inwards to increase the horizontal lever-arm (weight moment) it can also increase the force opposing the vertical (centrifugal force) moment if the rider gets his posterior way down by the foot rest... Since this situation means equilibrium, we can blithely say the bike can be leaned over more and the speed increased...
But ain´t it just an awful picture!? the way these modern GP & WSB riders hang over the side...?!
Obviously it is the key to success for the taller, heavier blokes -- yet also quite easy to see, is that -- with a Bantam particularly -- the increased frontal area must increase the Wind Drag resistance.
So who is going to be the first Bantam racer to really hang-over-the side
and `gain advantage of being taller and heavier...?´
Perhaps there is a picture somewhere of such a performance with a Bantam...?
Cheers!
JayBee.
Thank God for gravity -- without it we´d all be wearing oxygen masks...
-- Frau anonymous.

I gotta tell ya JB, I never thought about CG when I was "anging orf", it was a natural thing for me at 6'4" and 12.5 stone, it suited me and I felt comfortable with it. Not sure if I did it too much on Bantams but on 250 Prod, open 250 and 1300 four strokes it was a neccessity(spl).I think being comfortable with your riding style far outways the physics of going faster via the stats, your a good example "Freddie". I think the stats come in to it when your well clear of club racing and doing it proffessionaly. Lets face it, not many of us ever got or will ever get to that level. I've shared grids with Ron Haslam, mick Grant etc but you never saw me mentioned in MCN, I raced my way and that suited me. Now with my extra pounds brought on by old age and too much good living, I would need my ass dragging on the tarmac.

Nice pic Mick!
Style is quite neat.
Comfortable with how you feel is right -- during my one day of real glory at Llandow in pouring rain I was purposely sliding the corners and it was like I belonged... -- so obviously I was never a proper road-racer. Maybe if I had stayed in Blighty I´d have done better on Andy´s 250. During the second season I was beginning to get 4th and 5ths behind a lot of Japanese things and having a whale of a time, battling with John Senior...
--- But you ain´t on a Bantam there -- it looks a lot bigger. Got a pic here of you with the Eastem Centre mob -- you are the tallest by far (quite skinny really!). Keith Webb, Mick Scutt, you, John Pearce (can´t place him) Peter Styles, Tony Brown, Bill Lawrence and Ted Smith...
I wonder what year that would be?
Take care,
Aye! JayBee.

Hi John, yep that ain't no bantam, it is a Suzuki X7 250 production racer. I used it to win the BRC championship in 1980. I know the pic you refer too. I looked bloody awful in it, I filled out a bit by the time i got on the 1,000 Kawasaki thank god. It was taken at Debden, we had just won the team race, it must have been 77/78. I can't remember if i was riding my bantam(1977) or one of Ted's(1978). The Ted bantam was a nice bike I remember and was built big so suited my frame, it had a good turn of speed and I managed a 4th in a bantam open or it may have been championship race at Debden in 78 behind Pete Styles and co. Memories.
The X7 was bought from Colin Pole and had a Terry Beckett motor. I did alot of tuning myself during the season and grabbed another 500 rpm out of it. It was definately one of the quickest in it's class. I was mad enough to run Dunlop TT100 road tyres for the first half of the season but woke up to the delights of KR124's in time to win the pot.

Hi John
I have noticed over the last few years that a number of 125 riders are using smaller front wheels than rear. How does this affect handling and the hanging off style of riding.
Oh and if it was Shakespeare that called "nostalgia" the whore of memory. Who was it that said it isn't what it used to be ?

Hi Barry!
Son Slick -- in the IoM -- says 16.5" front is optimum...
Handling aspects are strictly personal -- what suits one is terrible for another. An investigation, and conclusion, of what affects good handling is too large for here -- there many good articles on the subject...
And that means the first statement (of 16.5"...) has to be qualified by, WHO is it? -- that happens to be riding ( or trying to race) WHAT? Long or short wheelbase with its aspect of weight distribution -- rear to front -- is just a starter... Largest tyre-contact patch is another but not as critical as getting the steering geometry right.
--- Re hanging-out -- àla Mick Jones: -- a simplistic look would suggest the largest wheels and lowest CofG, possible, would offset any argument for the difference of control during cornering when compared with which size of wheel or what type of tyre...?
-- The tall (like Mick Jones) racers have the advantage of getting out further and getting the bulging, bulky part lower -- and closer to the road -- although, according to the pictures, Mick never seemed to have any flab.
Motorcycle racers try to exhibit a tough-guy image to the rest of the world but they are really nervous wimps underneath that manly mantle... When they find themselves getting nearer the front, during races, they begin looking for all sorts of MAGIC that might make them a little bit faster. That little bit of difference? Who is using what? is a favourite rendition -- from port-timing, thro´ reed-valves & carburretors to silk or nylon underwear. The other known way is to wander around the pits spreading predictions of their own unreliabity, having a touch of flu, got-bother-at-home lies, the mother-in-law giving the rider stick for going racing ... and that their hands are too cold. That, in the hope of the opposition taking it seriously enough to get so shocked during the race that they lose their concentration...
I was at Hockenheim when Slick spread the word among the news media and around the hotel that his WSB rider was "...two seconds off the pole pace... had cold hands ... and doubted his chances". Next day the opposition saw the two seconds belonged to their lap time deficit...
--- So, although this wheel size with contact-patch and relative aspects of handling criteria ARE critical factors in handling it, (as has been spouted) is mostly hot-air -- just like this, you are reading now!
Anyone preparing for road-racing really needs to review his own statue and physical fitness relative the class in which he´d like to race. An 18 stone `Tubby´, whose spare time occupation is shifting pints of bitter, ought to select a 1000cc Grunter with 7 gears -- for instance -- and race in AllComers events.
--- Having only 3 gears the racing Bantam presents a formidable challenge in terms of concentration that other bike riders, with 5 or more gears, do not need. That is, to keep the revs within the useful power-band and maintain competiveness. That may well account for most Bantam racers keeping the head in line with the rev-counter and not out there beyond the clip-ons...

---Apologies to Alan (and yawning others...) for this being so long.
So long!
Aye!
JB (for John Boy--not quite ex....)



Getting back to the start of all this is the

I was what you call a non scientific rider, a grunt on two wheels. I just went hell at it and wrung it's neck. The bantams were great for that, just wack it open and keep it there, i found that easy enough. The switch to 4 strokes was easy enough too, except for the inevitable probs like missing gears. On Mick Potters LC at the BFRC 500 k's, I was very happy about the way i adapted to the differant gear change.....until, on a long left hander, knee on the deck, i changed down instead of up. Whoops, a bag full of useless revs and a very wonky LC with me hanging on for grim death. We finished though, that was the main thing, even though we ran out of brakes midway and endured a lengthy pit stop plus the other Mick dumping it in the early stages, LOL.
On the 4 stroke it was pretty easy going, my biggest mistake being in qualifying for the 82 race of aces at snetterton, tried to hang onto the back of rocket Ron as we dived into russells, missed a gear and pistons meet valves. Oh well.....Moments.