Congatulations

Hi all I would like to be the first to congratulate
The team miller team on the birth of the first new racer too hit the track this year. and after lots of effort setting up all the hard work was done by yesterday afternoon all the hard work was rewarded. I was very privileged to see a very smooth and consistent Micky Scutt riding around the lydden circuit in the rain but did not seem to phase Mick as the saying goes they still life left in a old dog yet sorry about the old lol So watch out boys and he looks so mean in his new helmet. So a big thanks to all the team millers boys as in Tom Pete Roger Ned and not to forget Micky the man
Well done lads roll on Thursday
Hope to see all the new bike out
Robbie
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Was a good day shame about the weather in the afternoon but like u said when the little things were fixed the rain didn't stop him hope his not doing all meetings coz I won't that one lol it's quick lol

I'm gutted because I was hoping to get there but couldn't get anyone to cover me taking lads to a boxing show in the afternoon. Ironically The show was just down the road in Sittingbourne.

Yes, it really was a day to remember !

I only got there with masses of help from a great bunch of friends - in particular, Ian, Tom and Roger, worked as a great team getting the bike sorted out despite the usual teething problems and the weather.

Others have been very hepful in getting back on the track , especially Pete Styles, Ned and Robbie so to all of you

Thanks guys!

Mick

Hi all :-

Sorry but this is just is not good enough "I mean come on" just kidding - but it would be great and I would really like to see a photo" of the new bike, I mean one of the all time greats returns and we have a distance shot taken by some top secret spi - propbably undercover ! and from some military satalite!!

seriously what about some close ups and details Mick" please.!

Hope you enjoy the experience "to come" as much as I did and doing.

I'm guessing- piston proted, but can not guess if its a 125 or 175 !!

regards Derek

bettsd wrote:

I'm guessing- piston proted, but can not guess if its a 125 or 175 !!

regards Derek

Number plates look black to me

Hi Ned,

actually I new the colours !!!!! absolutely.

I think its like a well executed left hook "you just never see them"

but I did wondering if this was correct" ?

Yes Derek you are absolutely correct -


the number plates are black



Its an aircooled, 54 x 54, piston ported 125, using a Brian White barrel and head and standard close ratio gears.

The wheels and forks have been pinched from Ian's aircooled and put on an SMS frame that Ian was planning to use - Sorry Ian !

It has a Fred type fairing from Alan Brown with mods by Ned.

Pictures ? I don't have any but you could take some at Mallory

Mick

That's ok it dose but a different twist to Derek's proposed penaltys just nick half our bikes lol

Hi Mick
While I would really like to be there, and will be trying, I dont have a bike ready, and besides I'll be travelling back from Scotland, so not sure I will make it possibly later in the afternoon.

but hopefully some one will take loads of photo's of all the new bikes and the mods to exsisting one's, so we can see, on here.

I have to say I'm intreaged to see what Ned has done to the Todd fairing "ref your faring mods", I would imagine its the front where the tonsil is or was!. if some one can get photo's of this please. as I have fasioned an alloy plate to do a job on air /flow or is it pressure after the tonsil. as John Bass said proper air cooling is actually more efficient than water cooling,!!!

and Ian another good Idea!, come back to you, so let me think on it.

and good luck for tomorrow, I have my fingesr crossed no issues for anyone tomorrow, for a very good reason !

regards Derek

Right Derek!

PROPER air-cooling being the gist of the reasoning because air-cooling being DIRECT cooling copes with a larger heat-drop than does w/C... Why water cooling appears to give better performance -- I THINK -- is attributable to less cylinder deformation which is predominant in ported two strokes.

Maybe I am wrong again-- in saying that air-cooled barrel finning is NOT optimum for cylinder distortion, it always looks too diametrally uniform to me... I just wonder if anyone has ever done any serious development work in this area. I am thinking in terms of ducted air passages to get the cold air to the hotest part first or large finning where the hotest parts are...?

Hhhhmmmm!?

That´s me thinking --Hummmmm -- hhhmmm! Snore!!

Hi john
We did some work on temperature and hot spots all very crude, the exhaust side just behind and under the exhust port duct temp was surprising, actually its strange that this lower side was hotter between fin 1 and 2, I never really understood this, it was checked with a thermal lazer, repeated the tests and all very consistant from engine to engine. and done in stationary and under load conditions.

so why is the lower half of the barrel under the exhaust port hotter than the top half? you would imagine, it should be hotter where it opens ? but the barrel material was not, although other than this spot, the top half of an iron air cooled barrel and alloy barrel are still very hot in fact the same or similar temp, ? one would expect an alloy barrel to be cooler.

why do you think this is John?

also ducting the cooler air to this spot has always been some thing we have looked at, but it is difficult as its also covered by the exhaust down pipe.

regards Derek

Sorry! Dunno Derek... Very interesting though!

Guessing now! Heat always flows from a hot body to a cooler body so, 1)... its either that hot air from the exhaust pipe is transmitting its heat to the fin & barrel OR 2) ...that it is an internal happening where the piston ring is transferring heat to the bore very locally -- which suggests the heat of combustion is travelling thro´to the piston ring in a delayed fashion. Sounds very doubtful -- dunnitt?. Could be the ring moves away from the bore and comes back to it later -- lower down -- but you say this phenomena has been repeated so that is out.

In any case it is really interesting that you have found SOMETHING unexpected.

Now, I wondered if the liner to ally has an air gap just there where it hotter? If that were so it would not be repeated ona nother engine -- would it?

A crude test would be to put a baffle between the exhaust pipe and the cylinder barrel and using an extra fan, blast air at it so that the hot air from the exhaust pipe is diverted away from the barrel.

You are doing this on a dyno so you could curl the exhaust pipe upwards (Trials`ùpswept fashion!!) so that heat from the pipe is really away from the barrel.

The other point is that the exhaust is forward to meet the cool air which means it is fine for the head because the warmed up air takes less heat from the back of the head thus helping to balance the heat removal and balance the temperature front to back.



Good luck!

Cheers!.

Derek -- PS -- I just remembered that Deutz Service Organisation used to have a procedure for the Glazed Bore problem with their air-cooled diesels. This is where you´d see evidence of a glazed-bore as a heat-blue patch on the outside of the cast-iron barrel. The blued patch would frequently be about 2" to 4" in diameter often among the fins. Glazing was where the piston ring did not mate with the bore and the bore surface, instead of being matt-grey, was bright, bluey-brown with a highly polished looking surface.

The cure was to remove the barrel (the multi cylinder engines had individual heads & barrels...) and hone it, of course, and frequently customers would assumed that had happened but I have seen the Deutz Service Mechanics doing their recognised "Quick Fix" which was to use a kitchen abrasive powder -- like Vim, only finer -- which they fed in by hand, into the air intake with the engine running at a fast idle. Most times it only needed a small amount (dessert spoon amount) to get rid of the glaze....

Not suggesting you do such a thing but it could be a local glazed patch at the overheated area. Why on more than one engine -- though???

cheers!

Hi John
Absolutely amazing information John!, very interesting, but it's not this, "I actually know what it is", "well" its been explained to me what it is!!, I'm just looking to for somthing to write about after such a long journey today, so bored, ! while Im waiting (& holding my breath) to see what happened today, I hope every one went ok, I would like to know who was out, and how they got on, and hopefully (more importantly) "no problems" mc=x so a good turn out for the Bantam gathering in two weeks, perhaps you would like to attend John, you would be very welcome. !

regards Derek

I will load some pictures John see what Ive been upto besides the transfer duct plastic padding and /exhaust corner window mods.

i have taken some shots ref the cylinder head and cooling fins John and placed it on my page return to Bantam racing please feel free to comment.

Derek

Hi John I had moved these picsw may not have hit send as think its more appropriate to my topic than this one not wanting to poist on others.
but you are spot on in a lot of observations, the reason I'm have so much clitter that will be replaced witha better looking item once Ihave it sorted but it was all a bit rushed, as Ibeen down to a real treat to see and friend a Mira !!!! see the rest on
"my return to Bantam Racing blog" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




regards Derek

I´d like to attend Derek but I am unlikely to be in Blighty for some time yet... Planning to be at Cadwell in September....?? Might get over to my Sister´s place in a month´s time but that would only be for a short visit.

Just realised that I have been thinking your dyno testing has been with the bike á la your avatar picture with no fairing around the lower parts ... Almost naked in fact. Your latest pic shows that the fairing is on and you seem to be trying some air ducting... Looks cluttered -- if you don´t mind me saying so!!

What I would do -- if I had a dyno -- would be to do a number of BASELINE DATA tests WITHOUT fairing but using a fan directed at the engine to simulate a substantial wind force.

A golden rule is to make only one change at a time between tests.

Perhaps you are trying to do too many things at once. First establish a baseline of performance with the bike naked. Then put a few baffles to direct airflow at the HOT spots ... but remember if you are going after improved performance it has to be only one change at a time otherwise its total confusion.

...but ah! yes! You are, of course, using correction factors for your performance readings anyway? I guess that would be in your computer software programmes... I mean correcting read-out figures to Normal Ambient Temperature & Pressure or to Standard Temperature & Pressure. The ambient changes -- particularly humidity -- are quite considerable.

I must look back at the drivel I wrote yesterday and perhaps delete a line or two because I was thinking you were testing the machine in its naked state -- which is the oft mentioned preferred condition....

Take care!

Chin up & Cheers!

Hi John Look "No worries mate

But John I have been told to move the crap I write to my own page " actually thought it was quite rude" hurt my feelings !!

so Im going to continue my drivvel on my own blog, so we have moved to "MY RETURN TO BANTAM RACING Blog, I put some sofware pictures on there for you to take a look at, and tell me what Im doing wrong !.

cheers Derek

what a legend - well done 67 was my very first racing number it related to me in a personal way love the bike especially the fairing.

just hope it went ok for you guys, PM me I will call Tom tomorrow ref our discussion. but congratulations to you "Mick" the midlands boys will not be far behind you, I will suggest they should have all been out by the end of this season, and be at the practice day next year.



well done again just shows your never too old.

sorry "to young"

regards Derek