Raising the profile of Bantam Racing!

Any ideas on raising the profile of Bantam Racing?

I'm dissapointed with the press coverage the bantam class is getting
in the VMCC Journal, OBM, Classic Racer and BSN. We have had a
couple of pic's in CR but doesn't say they are bantams!
(You may of noticed in OBM the write up by BHR P.R.O. failed to mention
bantams and there were no end of season -championship results either?


Although our presence and entry has been better this season than the
previous 2 seasons we are now getting less coloumn inches?

As a class at BHR - surely Bantams are the cheapest class available for any
newcomer to 'dip their toe in the water'

Do we need our own P.R.O. ? Do we need to provide magazines,papers
with write ups?

Just a thought - taking a racing bantam to your local VMCC section and give
talk on the joys of bantam racing maybe....

Any ideas...

Mike!
You probably won´t like this: the fact is the Racing Bantam is always depicted looking like any other racing motorcycle ... Just never looking like its real self wrapped up in its lovely fairing as it always is....

If you had a Naked Bantam Racing Class that was truly LOW Cost -- even if there were only 2 or 3 of them actually competing in any season -- shown among the others (in their divinely attractive skirts) wouldn´t that be really getting the message home when spreading the good word among the ignorant heathens.

I remember Brian White´s sprinter being on show at Mary´s 2005 Lydden and it really did look like a Bantam with bits removed and a few racing add-ons added on....

I was interested in what you said at Cadwell whilst in your trailer in the presence of Lord Peter T... (he of the landed gentry!). It was to the effect of mistakenly putting in a layshaft gear which had one tooth too FEW. It is interesting from the point of what that can do to the the layshaft where the teeth are not rolling against each other but actually pushing against each other with -- perhaps -- disastrous results??!!

OK OK! -- so I´ll go and curl up in the dark somewhere.
Cheers!

I thought at brands with the bsb meeting there were a few folks who showed some interest, if there was some sort of leaflet to give out that would've helped tickle peoples minds once they're home and have another look at it.
if there's some art work for this on file I have a printers near me at work just a one man band type and I can't recall the amount of times I've fixed his machine, I'm sure i'd get a favor back for a change ,
I reckon a board with bantam facts and pictures /tech and build info on would go a long way too , where is the most likely place to atract new riders ?
If there were more bikes the profile would be raised as a result I would guess.

Hi Dan for next year get some flyers(from Alan) for the BSB Brands Meet or knock some up yourself :-

A nice picture or two and the website address on it ...
along with Alans contact details...

Your last sentence is a bit 'chicken and egg'

How's your Gearbox's coming on?

Regards Mike

still waiting for a 1.125 x 0.500 bearing and a torrington bearing for the other end of the layshaft to be delivered to me , then i can cut a cir-clip groove in my new side plate then it'll all be done, the new 28t gear is back and hardened correctly now too.

seen a track day advertised at brands on the 2nd dec , would be nice to be there to give it a try.

I think bantam racing is a little difficult to get started with compared to many other forms of racing. I think it would be helpful to have more off the shelf parts. The rules are very vague too which is great for tuning and development and I believe that is a major part of bantam racing, however more control parts can make things a lot easier to get going initially, keep cost down and keep everyone on a level playing field. What are other people's views?

Rob

Good one Rob!

Really needs thinking about so I´ll do that before dropping in with both feet -- just one thing though, when the Bantam Racing Club had about 660 members (in the late`60s --early `70s, it was very much like VMSS & Historic Racing is today. Our club catered for just about every class of Am-Pro/Would-be-Pro bike and racer you could think of. Some of the road racing `Specials´reminded of the Bitzas seen at grass tracks which were really horrendous in the fifties and should have been banned by scrutineering yet there weren´t that many bad accidents -- weren´t going fast enough I suppose.
Of course many more BSA parts were available in those days and we° found our IcarusOne engine in a field... Built IcarusOne for under 80 quid which included amassing 4-and-a-1/2 sets of CR gears...

° -- we = team of Derek Neil, Engine, Les, machining & turning. who found the engine in a pile of rubbish in an Essex field and me as bicycle parts & jockey.

Sorry! Hadn´t meant to go on so long with sickly nostalgia -- let´s hear from others...

Cheers!
JayBee -- for John-Boy trying to behave respectably...!

Only my opinion and I know it don't count for a lot but if we could find somebody that attended the meetings with bantams as a reason to attend but was not busy fettling with them all weeked that could start up the race reports again and possibly help Alan out with the uploading to the site as I know like us all he is a very busy man and I'm sure would be glad of the help ( please correct me if I'm wrong).

And then posibably have a banner printed they don't cost a lot and i have a few places that i can get one done that we could all chip in about £5 that we could hang in a prominent place at race meetings shows we go to ECT with pics at each end and some well chosen words with the website address on it ?

Just an idea????

Brilliant idea, young man! Your opinion is worth a lot.

Even race results don´t get posted until they are age-mold history and it used to be a thing of expectancy (of those not able to attend...) to get to Monday or Tuesday after a meeting to read about what happened. But as it is we who-only-stand-and-wait -- often -- do not get the results at all... Often the riders at a meeting don´t get to know ALL aspects of the Bantam racing. OK - OK! I know -- everyone´s busy. Surely there is someone of the Bantam ilk, out there, attending meetings who be keen enough to report. If unable to be sure of fact, that she/he had got it exactly right to go ahead and say how things were according to her/his viewing and hearing. That would have others writing in to say, "Eyoop! twern´t so ... it were Freddy third and Brian first ... and that sort of thing... So at least the CLUB seemed alive .

That is it!!

The Bantam Club is only alive at meetings and on here --

-- to the casual observer.
-- to me, as an ex-everything, ex-member and ex-BRC-chairman...

What about if all participating at a meeting either post their view of their Bantam race -- or if not Cyber-literate ( that means havinga personal computer...) getting a PC-Buddy to post for them ...

Or, if it is not possible to have one reporter for all Bantam meetings of the season ask for Volunteers now -- who feel fairly sure of being at particulat race meetings -- to report THEIR view of happenings. That could be two meetings being reported by three different reporters during the season.

Or -- what about this?: the riders write up a piece for what happened during their race and post it on here. This Forum would really burst with life -- explode perhaps -- perhaps you´d get some quarrelling debate ....??

... maybe things -- quietly snoozing, as they are -- would be better.

I remember two seasons back -- Nick bemoaning the fact that Ian and Mike were alongside at Cadwell, in a bend -- or was it Mallory, or lydden? -- and into the straight they just went away ... just a couple of sentences from Nick who has proved his wailing words were justified -- and I was there, reliving my dreadful past of sitting on a slow, but ever so-reliable° Bantam ---- there, with him...

Just ideas, and self-opinionated opinion, after thinking not too heavily. OK -- OK-- so everybody´s too busy with working on the bike, racing and packing up and driving a long way home --to remember to scribble something -- and next day at work and all that crap..-- but you know what reporters do? they have a notepad and jot a few words down and put it all together later. I´d love to hear that, " ... `so-&-so´ leant on me in Mansfield but I done ´im on Barn.... "

° Icarus One was reliable enough to know I´d get a trophy at teh end of the season but it was bluddy frustrating to sit there and have faster Bantams buzzing past on the straight.

Time for my snooze -- so out with the teeth!!
Cheers!

Like the idea of a paragraph or less from riders on a race at that meeting mini blog so to speak

So if we had race reports results mini blog and poss a news page regularly updated then we are creating our own news then we need to push the website to get people looking and talking more of an intrest still think a banner is a good idea we could also put flyers in the program's before they get taken to the gate to go on sale to the public would only take about 10 mins

If we had people writing reports have we the contacts to send them to obm bsn cr ECT mike u know graham lawler well? Would be be able to provide contacts that we could sent them to for possible print??

Goods ideas :-

a banner for shows/race meetings, (image-bsabantamracing.com-alive and clucking-image?)

flyers for shows/in race meeting programmes,

mini blogs - link to BBR site,

race reports? submit to mags etc

organised parsdes for bantams PR5's

race bantam visit to your local vmcc section - talk chat - bike strip - start up..

attendence at shows,

contacts with other 'bantam groups - clubs'

Sure there is more to come....

Rob tell us a bit more about control parts.....?

Mike

I looked at karting before I started racing a bike. Sometimes they have a controlled chassis which is not changed more than once every 5 years so that it is possible to still be competitive with a chassis that is second hand. Everybody runs very similar engines, a controlled air box and a controlled exhaust. Tyres and bodywork are also controlled. Because everybody uses the same parts they are generally very cheap. I seem to remember pricing up a brand new kart with an engine, ready to go, and it being around £5000.

Some very important parts for building a racing bantam are difficult and expensive to obtain and a fair amount of engineering ability is needed to build a competitive bike. I'm sure things could be done to make the sport more accessible for people. The hard part is perhaps not spoiling it for people who love the engineering and development.

Rob

You are right Rob -- a pukkha, competitive racing Bantam -- BECAUSE OF THE tricky machining and special fenarging (plus the inevitable `skirt´) -- has a price tag that must cause a Would-Be Bantam racer to walk away and get himself a second hand Kart -- or take up push-bike racing....

Why dunn I just keep my trap shut? (it shall surely be said by some on here ...) -- NO ONE LIKES THE IDEA -- yet (idiot that I am) I am repeating: a "Low Cost formula" similar to how it was in the BRC Founders days would surely attract some likely lads. The likes of John & Peter Hogan before the coming of Mole Benn, Roy bacon, Fred Launchbury and so on... weren´t so embarrassed to ride a naked Bantam that cost only about 40 quid to turn into a racer -- in those backward days. Very attractive to young blokes earning very little and really wanting to get onto a racing motorcycle on a race track. My IcarusOne bantam cost under 80 and IcarusTwo cost 40quid (but I already had CR gears by then) and although not quick enough in the Senior -- Stars - class were competitive and successful in the Intermediate events.

People probably look at my avatar here and cringe (particvularly those origional forks!!) -- much as some might have cowered away from the Hogan Bantams in the Pits standing among the Proper racing Motorcycles (these also didn´t wear skirts in those terribly Dark Days!!) but the point is that many an enthusiastic kid had the chance to get out on the track and get the feel of racing -- or prove the dread of it and drop it before it cost him too much° before taking the next step and put himself in hock for eternity °....

I have said it before -- a Class where the most simple tuning is permitted and using similar engine & bike components thro´out (low-cost items selected for this formula) and fairings are banned. The Calss would have its own points system yet still be out there in among the other Bantams.

° My road-racing leathers cost me 25 quid, second hand in 1967. A Lancastrian spent much more than that on having them tailor made for himself (fortunately he was my size). He bought a new AJS 7R and went racing ... Well, not really -- he didn´t get to race... He fell off in practice at Oulton Park and decided he wanted to go home to his Mum. It was his mum who sold the leathers to me and told me her poor boy would be paying for the broken 7R for the next 20 years. Maybe that was exaggeration but it highlights the point that in 2013 to go road racing motorbikes is far too costly for any youngsters whose Mums are not well-off....

That might be the reason there are so few full,dark-hair-headed racers out on Bantams -- and so many silver haired racers instead....

Cheers!

i'd love to have silver hair ................ or any hair for that matter!

i think it is as low or high cost as you like , to buy the parts is easy , ebay auto jumbles etc , doing the mods is the the killer for most folks ,

i made mine for a silly amount of money in real terms as i sold all manner of stuff i considered junk on ebay and bought other peoples cast offs , of real money taken from the bank it came to around £80 , the rest ebay selling and buying .

i notice john you mention skirts/fairings often , they're not that expensive really (mine was given to me so cant really compare that)

i think rob is right a race kit on a shelf someplace available with a phone call, pre machined barrel in alloy with cast liner with no holes , head at 9:1 , carbs , pre-machined case's and standard size piston of 64mm , then its easy and costs are upfront then grids maybe bigger, then most columns in mag's etc

just need a place to do it .

Good Afternoon Mike,

I appreciate the question was aimed at Rob, but felt suitably qualified to answer the question of controlled parts in Karting, having competed in a number of classes in karting in both open and formula classes, the overiding impression gained when controlled parts or classes where included was "cheating", implied or proved, add pushy parents and you have a recipie for disaster, being at the err slightly senior end of the competitor age group the "pushy" parent syndrome didnt really apply to me, but I have witnessed more playgroud mentality arguments in and around the scrutineering bay after a race didnt go in somebodies favour,was more than what was probably good for the sport, for some, the comprehension that their darling son/daughter could have possibly been beaten by such and such a person in that piece of sh*t, impossible, they must have been cheating, because when we bought this kart from ace karts are us,we were assured that it could'nt be beaten.

Ask anybody who's raced rotax Max,or TKM with a modicum of talent how they feel, I was lucky enough to help out in the paddock with a very talented, very smooth driver, always drove legal equipment always way out in front, his cylinder head and carb might as well have been attached with velcro, the amount of times his kart was quarantined in parc ferme for technical inspection.

Now I know the people in historic racing and in paticular Bantam racing are of a completley different breed and appreciate that in karting every parent wants their son/daughter to be the next Lewis/Jenson, but do we really want a good days racing spoilt by accusation of cheating over a controlled or formula class, there has been more than a few inches of print been dedicated to the manipulation of the current formula's for the class as it stands without having to police a new set, does anybody remember the pro am yamaha LC 350 challenge, where you drew your ignition key out of a bag prior to the start of the race and the bikes collectively transported to meetings in a truck?

As an aside if anybody needs cheering up if you get hold of a copy of the MSA magazine and go to the judicial reports at the back, they make for some really interesting reading, I for one didnt appreciate the damage a well aimed 100c engine could do when aimed at a caravan window, I read that one a few years ago and appreciate caravan windows have come a long way since the nineties!

Regards,

Mike

I’m driving the computer at the moment because it’s dark outside and too cold in the shed to get on with preparing my bikes for the 2013 sprint season.

I’m not a Bantam racer but I look in on this forum from time to time because I know some of you guys and I really like what you do. And I’m infected with the Two-strokes Disease, for which there appears to be no known cure. So as an outsider, looking in as it were, I hope you don’t mind me giving my impression of things? If the object of raising your Club’s profile is to encourage more riders then I respectfully offer the following:

As a mere observer it is my view that the 125s are the pinnacle of Bantam racing and also a prototype class. The developmental aspect is an important element for many and I would say that particular class should stay exactly as it is. The 175s are a step down but still far too specialised to serve as an entry-level class. I’ve seen responses to would-be Bantam racers such as ‘We don’t use the standard four-speed cluster; it’s been tried and found to be hopeless.’ And ‘Nobody uses Bantam forks these days.’ Of course such statements are quite true – if we compare those parts with more modern or superior components. And there’s the rub: people are terminally discouraged when they discover their planned excursion into Rooster Racing requires their D7, or whatever, to be transmogrified into something that is manifestly different to what they would recognise as a BSA Bantam.

Surely there is room for three classes with their separate awards?

Why not a class for long-strokes with iron barrels, steel tanks, wide ratio gears and no fairings? Give free choice on forks and front brake in the interests of elf ‘n’ safety.

The most important aspect, it seems to me, is to get bikes on track. Once bitten by the bug the aspiring Bantam racer can stay with the budget formula or plan a move up into the more competitive classes.

Totally agree with mike r we have a people flinging wild coments as it is and we allready have a controlled class the 175s and I think that as a class of builders/racers we police our selfs with our classes best intrest the most important how ever the way Dan put it sounds a good idea to help new starters but can't see somebody having the time and resources to stock pile so to speak but there are people out there that will do it for people birian white for one and I can't remember his name think it was Ted in n Yorkshire that have offered help as well as dan as well.

Mike p the way I see it from the ideas we need a reporter/PR o and a updateer to help Alan out with him stil in total control but where do we find thease people ????

Mike,
I can see how control parts could cause problems/arguments if people suspect you are cheating if you are fast! I have not had any experience racing karts but when I was looking into it, it looked extremely attractive that everybody has the same low cost equipment and it was still possible to compete with a lower budget.

We already use certain controlled parts in bantam racing with success, such as the gearbox and the ignition. It would be very easy to spoil the sport, not improve it by controlling things too tightly. Perhaps there could still be potential in more control parts though?

I would like to see bantam racing stand out as being low cost and easy to get involved with. I feel it is affordable but I'm sure things can be done to keep the cost down. Some parts are getting rarer and more expensive. I don't think the formula is as easy as it could be to get involved with, despite all the help on the forum.

Going back to Mikes' original point about the lack of publicity. Maybe we all need to focus on making our bikes clean and colourful. Lets face it, we probably have the scruffiest bikes at the BHR meetings and they are not going to want to print pictures of them in magazines!

Rob

Good Morning all,

I think we all agree the main focus of this thread is to raise the proflie of what we have now in terms of Bantam racing, I read a few cracking articles on the BHR website a couple of years ago penned by an aurthor by the name of Dark Angel, who on the face of it had no real connection to BHR but who's articles seemed to capture the atmosphere of the racing perfectly, perhaps we approach him to write an article on perhaps following the trials and tribulations of a Banatm racer at a meeting in the New Year, but what to do with it?

After Robbie's giant killing exploits at the Thundersprint at Northwich (GOOD EXAMPLE OF RAISING THE PROFILE) he had said that Dave Edwards the race sec and demon TZ rider at Aintree had cordially invited the Bantam club to race there, now Aintree is quite local to me and whilst having an opportunity to do a little modern, well modenish racing decided to take the 175 out for a play, and this is where I think we sometimes dont appreciate what we have, whilst I didnt aquit myself paticullaly well on track the interest as a static display (I know the idea is supposed to be a dynamic display) was absolutley brilliant, and people seemed genuinley interested not only in the bike but the fact that there was still an active racing scene, so maybe the point here is we need to get out and about. I believe the offer to race at Aintree still stands, but appreciate the financial implications of a one day meeting with regard to travel etc, I know also that Alan Brown raced with Preston and district at three sisters, these are examples that I am aware of where people have taken their Bantams and raced as individuals at other meetings in an appropriate class, what would be the reaction to the whole Bantam grid turning up on mass, invited of course, to race as a class.

One last point for Rob on the dangers of using controlled parts, I would like to sight tyres as a perfect example of the rule of the exception, the last controlled class I raced in (karting ) which was a few years ago was Rotax Max, it was in its infancy and like most kart classes used a contolled tyre in this case it was a vega tyre (just a point here every class had a different tyre so even though your Kart maybe eligable to race in more than one class in terms of cc you would need tyres from that particular manufacturer to score points in the different classes) anyway back to the Vega's they cost at the time £98.00 +the VAT (something else that seemed to be the norm in karting prices were always quoted excluding the VAT) excellent tyres but very soft compound. The racing format at Wigan used to be free practice on a Saturday and racing on Sunday, as a midfield runer I would use the last practice session on a Saturday to scrub a new set of tyres in for Sunday, on Sunday you would get two practices, two heats and a final, you would then use that set of tyres in the next practice session ,prior to the last session of the day I would put new booties on for the Sunday racing, and so on and so on, so in effect I would get one practice day and one race day out of a set of tyres, now as I said I was a midfield runner, I know of guys at the sharp end who would use Saturday practice to scrub in three or four sets of tyres prior to the racing on Sunday as given everything else on the kart was controlled the ony percieved advantage was to use new tyres to gain that nth degree of advantage in every race from new tyres, and this was club racing! cheap racing on a level playing field, I think not!

Regards,

Mike

some recent cracking articles on this subject , this is what i have said in previous articles, " a standard class" and let people find there feet, whats stopping you guys, the future is in your hands and encouragment is what people need and not to be deterred. on a another note my engine is progressing and some work has commenced on the frame although we are some way off a full bike work is progressing thanks to you all for your help . ( just a note it will be quite standard to start with) all the best ted

Right Ted -- but now I´ve come to digress on the subject I conclude
there are positively two Profile sides of this argument:-

Profile 1. Is to get more racing members into the `club´ by making Bantam Racing look as if it is, as Roy Bacon said, "Racing On The Cheap" ...

...and ...

Profile 2. The Bantam racer must have this "Racing Motorcycle Look" which
makes it look as extravagently expensive -- in its current top-competitive
form -- as any other racing motorcycle.

I see some splendid examples of ancient British motorcycle history at VMCC
meetings -- once a year infortunately -- being splendidly & aggressively raced WITHOUT fairings and seemingly do not need fairings in the class in which they are competing -- HAPPILY!

Just taking one item -- ignition system -- Icarus-1 had battery and contact breaker sytem which restricted it to 8,400 rpm but it had good torque back-up, wide power-band (compared with the high revvers of then...) and fantastic reliabilty race-wise. So it only won Intermediate races -- yet it was LOW COST FUN.

How much does a CB ignition set cost? compared with the latest electronic unit -- ?

There won´t be any answers to that one -- I´ll wager -- because the attitude
is that using CB system is a step backwards -- which will verify Profile 2... in the `must have a Chic profile´ ....

Yaaaawwwnnn!
Cheers!

175 electronic ignition is cheap I paid 50 for the lot brand new, a cb setup would be more as the battrtys are almost that much, I can't see how a 175 could be made any cheaper,

Hi lots of points that I wish to comment on, again this is my opinion I am not trying to be controversial but may be seen as such. Firstly I am going to use the contact at Motor Sport Vision that I sorted out this year’s Brands Hatch display with to try and expand the idea, with a view of having stands at more of their meetings. At the AGM I had a conversation with James Hewing and he is pleased to help with, or take over and talk to MSV if I need help. The idea is to Have Bantam/BHR displays with banners and information at as many meetings as possible. This will need MSV to like the idea and BHR volunteers to man it.

We do not get the press coverage we used to as Russ Lee and Graham Lawler have no part in the BHR any more; they always sent photos and write ups that were kind to our class. The BHR are looking for a photographer for next season, so if any of you know of one with media accreditation that will be kind to Bantams or even biased towards them he/she is needed.

Next I like in principal Undredseesee’s suggestion but they would have to understand they would be way outclassed. The idea of a more controlled formula I think would lose more riders than it would entice, as most current Bantam rider/builders do so to see how good a bike they can build within the current formula. Then would that mean all the current bikes would not be allowed to race or win championship points. The idea of stock parts to build a racing Bantam can only work in two ways, as an idea or as a business. As in idea it is not any help, as a business I don’t think it will make a profit. I don’t want any of the forum readers to think I am pouring water on any suggestions that come up, but they do have to be looked at with the real world in mind. If we want stock parts on the shelf for people to build into a bike, who makes them? Who looks after them? Who keeps track of them? Who finances them? Who keeps track of the standard of work? We do not have a Bantam racing club any longer to do all this.
I wish you all a happy winter in your workshops.

I'm not saying we should necessarily control the formula more and i have said that if we did it should be done with caution. I made the point that some sports with control parts have the advantage that because everyone is using the same parts they can be readily available and low cost. There are no doubt hundreds of examples of control parts spoiling race formulas but I believe they can work and are sometimes a necessity. If I were to suggest a control part to use on a bantam it would perhaps be along the lines of an air box of a certain size or a control tyre (bearing in mind bantams don't go through tyres quickly). I don't feel I'm suitably experienced or qualified to direct the sport at the moment but I just made the suggestion to get some ideas flowing. Don't take anything I have said too seriously!

I think there are some good suggestions coming out this thread. I quite like the idea of naked bikes, even just a cup race. Fairings do hide the fact that we are racing bantams. That could be a good thing or a bad thing haha. I love bantams but they don't have much street cred if you are trying to attract young people. Not sure I like the idea of points. Electronic ignition is just too good and damn reliable!

Rob

Great idea Ted ref MSV BSB Events having a stand and banner and flyers etc..
Good thinking! I think some of us are thinking outside the box!

Edward P could you design a flyer from some pic's off the site with race dates
contact details etc which would be accessed off the site as a pdf or something?

The problem we still have though is no write ups and no pictures??
Any offers anyone?

Mike