Pre season Testing!!

I see from Facebook that Robbie is the first runner out on tarmac!
How did it go Rob? got any youtube footage??

I have been out running on the tarmac for weeks, going Ok but my feet dont half hurt !!!

James

Hi all yes bike was very impressive at brands yesterday great fun with the R1 749 R6 & CBR'S was wet but still went well
still some setting up to do then tidy the bikes looks
get my paint brush out
have some video will try and get it on utube later

from what i heard from eagle eyed watchers i think we have a strong contender for Petes trophies next year. finally Rob has had some good luck.

I should have been testing to day but due to a family bereavement, flu and a bloody chest infection have had to put it off till next week

My post-season started on the rolling road last October.. as my motor had been run for two seasons without any tuning input just an assumption I had about 22bhp output as in 2001. However since a 2001 blow up the engine was linered but with only one exhaust port not three as previous.

Post season session revealed 18.3 bhp which explains why I fell off 3 times trying to keep up!!
Pre-season rolling road session last Tuesday revealed my revamped motor now has only 18.6 bhp but a better spread of power and higher torque value too....

More testing needed I feel....

Ian have you started yet??

put mine on rolling road dare I say only getting 14.9 bhp ! torque 9ftb then 11ftb ? not sure if this is good or bad nothing to looking at my old notes compare to I ran my old bike in about 88 was getting 18.9 then and 15ftb I believe this is was very good, as my MT only managed 14ftb but a much higher bhp-23

just fitted this reed valve motor to the bike will be trying this next week, anyway hope to improve in the comming weeks.
and still to make the pipe. tghe old one is lost ?

mike you been on your hot mail lateley !

Mike pin ups are over rated, and well over paid Diane thinks I could do a much better job ?????? of course I agree.
and I'm glad you agree with me the technical stuf is far better than the (womens click and institue stuff) usual !!!!!!!!!! lol

alan what you getting out of yours last year, you been on a rolling road this year yet.


regards Derek

Hi Derek/Mike,
My bike at its best was turning just 22 BHP but with an incredible spread of power, I can get round Cadwell with a naff gearbox in top only! and still get a fair mid placing, this has happened twice so far! Must say it is mind boggling at the mountain!
Most of the time it is somewhere about 20 if I am lucky.
I work on power spread rather than just max power to make the engine easier to use, I don't need to worry what gear I am in and a mistake does not matter that much as I can pull out of a corner with too high a gear and the difference is negligable.
Not like the spare Scutt air cooled bike I rode at the last meeting, that was a bit of a light switch and quite a handful in wet conditions, I reckon I could have been quicker on mine as I wouldn't need to think about the way the motor ran quite so much... then just concentrate on riding only.
I will be helping James Cook with his 175 this year, and then when the summer sets in I am going to replace the broken frame on mine and do some much needed sorting of the engine, not least the crank has just about come to its final resting place! and the gearbox was just wacky at the last meeting and I really need 3 gears that stay in (don't we all!!). James will ride my bike in 2012, and the 175 will become the spare.
I will get more involved in the club through doing some scrutineering (keep them spokes tight!) and helping James, not sure after my accident what the overall future will bring but I hope to mend well...
Cheers
Alan

Rolling Roads - Alan, Derek are the RR's you have been on a Dyno Pro Dynamometer? If so we are all talking the same numbers. There are lots of these up and down the country. Derek peak torque in numbers is normally half peak power i.e. 18bhp 9ftlb 22bhp 11ftlb.
And hopefully peak torque happens about 1'000rpm lower i.e. peak power 10'000 peak torque 9'000

Case in point Snowy's ex Jimmy 175 motor I put on a RR in 2008 it made 22bhp and 11ftlb but unfortunatly both occured at 9'500 which made it 125 like to ride, not tractable and full of grunt like a 175 should be!?

Alan excellent that your working with James to get him a fast ride....

Spoke to Ian last night he's on a RR today with his 008 water cooled machine...

Mike -interesting, never new that torque / BHP bit, torque is half max bhp, or is this what we should be aiming for, ? to give best/ideal power spread ?

what do you mean by pro dyno' rr ? is this what they are called, or is it a company.


i agree with ned to: first morbidelli i saw was roger keen's at longmarston with two straights over 1 mile long, he won both 125 and 250 races on it and was second in the open, i drooled over it in the pits, was only 17/18 at the time.

rgds derek

Hi all..
Ref bhp/torque figures - its just something i have noticed. I don't know if its good/bad for torque to be half power output the other thing is bhp isn't ftlb's there just numbers to me??

Just saying if you go on a 'Dyno Pro Dynometer' a type of 'Dyno' in Birmingham and you got 20bhp and I got 20bhp on the one in Lincoln we have the same. Where as different makes/types of Dyno give different figures. i.e. My Reed valve motor had 24.5bhp on a Dyno in Mansfield but two weeks later(same temp/air pressure etc)without any changes had 22.2bhp on a mobile dyno(back of a truck) at Cadwell...

Robbie(ref video evidence) your 175 sounds throaty!! the intake roar sounds to be over the 105decibels, so poss not legal? Think you will have a good 25bhp?
But the only thing i can say for sure after your test is - the fences at Brands are too high!!

Ian how did your rolling road test sssion go? Anymore to do... or is your next appointment on tarmac?

RR Testing went well the other week and the new barrel and new style piston seem to be a success. Just had a few electrical problems and found the water pump was not working but id rather find that out in a shed that out on track. Just need to get the rider fit again and next outing will be VMCC day.

Hi Ian interested to know what you mean new style piston are you using a tkm type dykes or none, just a hunch.

I use to make the things, we have had ours measured propely for polar shape, only small amount re machining required as they are designed for air cooled motors !.

Just moved from tz250 to RS125 with longer and wider skirt as are much more readily available and free.

Hopefully this may show a little bit of pre-season testing? If not I'll get someone who knows what they are doing to load it!

https://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l624/bantam33/?action=view&current=RR132011.mp4

Ran both bikes on dyno at the weekend.

175 kicked out 15bhp and 10ft lb @ 8000rpm. Clutch slip limited torque to 10ft lb. Retarding the ignition timing only slightly from 0.040" btdc sent the bhp into freefall.

Big issues with 002. Clutch still slipping under load. Now have some FS springs on the bench...The fuel starvation problems that plagued me last season were exposed big time, as the fuel level in the float bowl could be seen to gradually reduce under hard engine load, until the engine cuts out after about 20 seconds. On shutting the throttle the fuel level is restored quite quickly. I have installed a high flow tank tap, enormous tank breather etc. Fuel gushes from the assembled float needle unit with the float bowl and floats removed. It appears that the float needle valve is not passing sufficient fuel when the engine is pulling hard. Anyone experienced similar problems with a Lectron?

Chris

Hi Chris,
had the same problem on a Mikuni in the early days of my setting up my bike, and had to fit a hi flow needle assembly to cure it. Then I found that the filter was restricting the flow, so experimented with different filters, I now use a good one from Allen's performance that doesn't break up and gives a good flow rate as well. Also change them every year or they get gunged up and you are back to square one!
Glad you have found the problems on 002, you will not get good air/fuel readings untill you have the fuel flow sorted though!
Alan

Yes Chris I have -

1. try Alans flow idea first and test it, if it works great

2. if not lenghten the inlet tract with a spacer between carb rubber and cylinder. If you can wait you can borrow some off me

This 6 transfer top end never really got set up after its re-birth in 2004/5 and hadn't run previously on the retard ignition it has now... great to see you got it on a dyno!

all very interesting stuff great, seems just like the good old days, mike on Alans comments on fuel, wondering if my bike has been struggling as a result of fuel starvation ?, also amazing just studying your float bowel as you open throttle.


based on how the bike steve hall sold that Mark Carkeek won championship on, performed when sold to steve woods, I have to agree with mike, shows Mark was an exceptional rider and it was not just the bike, did steve ever win a race on it, steve was a quick rider, i do remember keith / steve brother saying it had a razor/ on of power band, not sure I agree that Mark would very quickly within 30 laps join the top three again, either, 'that's if he returned" though i woulds very much like to be proven wrong ? , I think it would take a little longer than one assumes especially with the current front three they are just so quick.

Its great to hear from Trevor Amos to, its good to see you are still looking in Trevor, hope you are well after your illness, you thinking of building another engine then, ? what are your thoughts or comments about all the gearbox issue most are suffering from, what do you put this down to ?.

regrads Derek Betts

Chris what are 'FS springs' ?

Derek you went on the rolling road last sunday... what were your bhp figures??
Ian is the 26/28bhp figures at the crank or rear wheel? I know the rolling road you went on doesn't have bhp figures etc ... As i went on it in 1994(its in my performance notes) with both 001/002... and there were two teenage lads (14yrs) showing interest - You and Tom Snow!

Hi Mike

good question - spoke to allan about it today, actually we had quite a big improvement in BHP, in fact so big we run out of road, still on the Amal though we expect more from the Mikuni - anyway on the BHP figures, we are now getting 240 bhp at the back wheel, I have entered into negotiations with Valentino Rossi's agent, apparently he's unhappy with the power out put of the works Ducati He;s heared about all the BHP figures being banded around the BSA BANTAM web site, and some of the lap times, I'm holding out for a better contractual terms and more money, but keep you all posted!!

also i think we should encourage more of the guys like me who are building new racers or returning as I' am, the purpose is to locate it to a page as a lot of the good stuff on here will be lost, down the list as the forum moves, like a talk to Tom / Alan / Mike Brian /or Peter if he would help, in the responses like a questions and answer's spread, all in response to current problems, or topics there is so much coming on here now I am struggling to keep pace with it, but we need to keep it going and possible ask allan to create a separate subject pages for clutches /gearbox / pipes 125 / 175 and general problems etc etc answered by the above named, we could ask blasts from the past, names like Trevor Amos should also be asked to take part also I'm sure Gerry pell would be happy to make the odd comment from time to time, we have a wealth of knowledge, we must try and use the blasts from the past, but it needs to be a serious subject matter, with only positive responses asked for and allowed, this means no cocks no bull and no dreamer questions - unlike the one above!.

"well now and then doesn't hurt".!

kind regards

Derek